nelson.graham
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The most stubborn pi3 around. I HAVE GONE UP AND DOWN THE STICKY

Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:59 am

So I have had my Rpi 3 model B for a couple of months now and have had on and off stints of trying to get the thing to actually boot. I have been through every FAQ and forum post on the English side of the internet but to no avail, yes that includes the boot sticky. I have been up and down the boot sticky time and time again with no luck.

All I ever get is a red power light and rainbow screen. Never any green light or other screen activity. I have been through 3 different power supplies. An official Rpi unit, a cheap amazon one and a CanaKit unit. None of them have resulted in any change. I probed the power pins on the board with my multi meter and each PSU is outputting over 2.5A and over 5V so I am confident that power is not the issue.

I have also been through 3 different SD cards. 2 Sandisk cards and an official Rpi card with N00bs preinstalled. On all cards I have tried using both the zip and torrent versions of n00bs and installed them on the cards after using the official SD card formatting software with a full overwrite format. Yes, I know that I installed n00bs the correct way, with each individual file present and not all in one folder.

After this didn’t work I tried writing the raspbian disk image directly to the card. I can see that kernel.img is present in the file as per many other help threads but there was no progress made.

On the more miscellaneous side I have also checked the pins in the SD card slot and they all seem like they should be making good contact however I have noticed that if I power the board up without a card installed there is no screen activity at all versus the rainbow screen when the SD card is inserted.

I am aware that all Rpi boards are said to have been functional when they left the factory but at this point I am questioning whether or not my board is DOA or not. I do not have access to a 2nd pi to test and I don’t really want to shell out more money than I already have just to find the same issues again.

I had a few projects in mind for my pi but with the amount of time I’ve wasted trying to get this thing to boot has put a bit of a damper on that. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

wh7qq
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Re: The most stubborn pi3 around. I HAVE GONE UP AND DOWN THE STICKY

Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:54 am

Humor me and try this just as I have written it (at least for now, forget the stickies):

Download a fresh .zip file of the latest Raspbian Stretch with desktop...not Noobs, the torrent or anything else.

Verify the sha256sum of your download (.zip file) against the published value. There are free utilities for calculating it.

With an 8 G or larger, class 10 or better uSD card, use Etcher (free for Windows, Mac and Linux) and run it on the .zip file. Etcher will format the uSD and burn the uSD card with the .zip file all in a single operation.

Insert the uSD card in the holder on the RPi and connect the power supply.

The result should boot to a Stretch desktop and if it doesn't work, you may have a hardware issue. All preceding is assuming you have an adequate power supply and you are getting your uSD cards from a major manufacturer and vendor...San Disk "Ultra" from Amazon (sold and shipped by Amazon) is a safe bet. You may have some counterfeit uSD cards or you may be getting confused with all the different stuff you've been told to do...it should not be hard. Just download the zip file, verify and run Etcher.

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Gavinmc42
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Re: The most stubborn pi3 around. I HAVE GONE UP AND DOWN THE STICKY

Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:23 am

Normally the green led will blink when the gpu starts reading the uSD card.
No green blinking at all is a worry. First suspect is always the uSD card.
But all is not lost.

Grab the Rasbian image, the smaller versions takes less time to write.
Etcher it to a USB stick, then try to boot from that.
If stick has LED you should see it blink when the Pi accesses the stick.
I boot my dev Pi3B+ from a USB caddy 2.5" SSD, no uSD at all.

Plan C is network booting.

Red led and rainbow is a good sign, that means the VC4 gpu is running ok.
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
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davidcoton
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Re: The most stubborn pi3 around. I HAVE GONE UP AND DOWN THE STICKY

Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:45 am

Gavinmc42 wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:23 am

Grab the Rasbian image, the smaller versions takes less time to write.
Etcher it to a USB stick, then try to boot from that.
If stick has LED you should see it blink when the Pi accesses the stick.
I boot my dev Pi3B+ from a USB caddy 2.5" SSD, no uSD at all.
This will work on 3B+ and 3A+ models, on 3B the OTP bit needs to be set first, which required a boot from SDCard....

@nelson.graham, is it a 3B or 3B+ ? Not sure it makes any difference, I think the rainbow screen means the power rails are all present.
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HawaiianPi
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Re: The most stubborn pi3 around. I HAVE GONE UP AND DOWN THE STICKY

Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:23 am

nelson.graham wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:59 am
So I have had my Rpi 3 model B for a couple of months now
3B or the newer 3B+ model? If it's the 3B+ you could try booting from a USB flash drive, as suggested above.
All I ever get is a red power light and rainbow screen.
That means the system is getting enough power to at least fire up the GPU (rainbow screen is a GPU test).
Never any green light or other screen activity.
What are you using for a screen?
I have been through 3 different power supplies. An official Rpi unit, a cheap amazon one and a CanaKit unit. None of them have resulted in any change. I probed the power pins on the board with my multi meter and each PSU is outputting over 2.5A and over 5V so I am confident that power is not the issue.
I'm not buying that. I have load tested the Canakit PSU, and it could not maintain 5V at full load. It was still above the minimum recommended 4.75V, but it was definitely less that 5V. How did you load test these results?
I am aware that all Rpi boards are said to have been functional when they left the factory but at this point I am questioning whether or not my board is DOA or not. I do not have access to a 2nd pi to test and I don’t really want to shell out more money than I already have just to find the same issues again.
If you believe it's a hardware defect, then the odds of you receiving another dud are highly unlikely. Do you know anyone else with a Pi. Check local schools, libraries or code clubs to see if you can find someone to help you (or another Pi you could use to troubleshoot).

Adding your location to your profile might help you find someone nearby willing to help.
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hippy
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Re: The most stubborn pi3 around. I HAVE GONE UP AND DOWN THE STICKY

Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:13 pm

nelson.graham wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:59 am
All I ever get is a red power light and rainbow screen.
That is actually a good sign because it means power is getting to the board and SoC and the SoC is running. I am doubtful it's a power supply problem, and why trying various supplies isn't improving things. It does sound to me more like the card not being read, perhaps an issue with the card socket ?

That it behaves differently with a card inserted suggests it is at least reading something, which would point to whatever is on card not being correct. But you say you have tried everything, so, unless it's some systemic error you are making, I have no idea.

If you have never managed to get it to boot it might be worth talking to the retailer you bought it from to see what return, test, replace or repair service they offer.

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Re: The most stubborn pi3 around. I HAVE GONE UP AND DOWN THE STICKY

Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:17 pm

nelson.graham wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:59 am
...
I have also been through 3 different SD cards. 2 Sandisk cards and an official Rpi card with N00bs preinstalled. On all cards I have tried using both the zip and torrent versions of n00bs and installed them on the cards after using the official SD card formatting software with a full overwrite format. Yes, I know that I installed n00bs the correct way, with each individual file present and not all in one folder.

After this didn’t work I tried writing the raspbian disk image directly to the card. I can see that kernel.img is present in the file as per many other help threads but there was no progress made.
...
What you don't say is what type of uSDHC card writing device you used eg. a "built-in" slot or an external (USB) device. Whilst this should be less of an issue with recent computers/tablets, unless a built-in slot is labelled (or specified elsewhere) as being SDHC/XC compatible it may not be. (Historically compatible "slots" have appeared first in cameras/phones, in which the SDHC/XC cards were primarily intended to be used). Personally I've always used a USB-based card reader/writer, more often than not one that was supplied with the card**.
Trev.
** FWIW, Some examples can be seen here http://www.cpmspectrepi.uk/raspberry_pi ... aders.html and the most recent one supplied with a Kingston card (AF) here: http://www.cpmspectrepi.uk/raspberry_pi ... cards.html
Still running Raspbian Jessie on some older Pi's (an A, B1, B2, B+, P2B, 3xP0, P0W) but Stretch on my 2xP3A+, P3B+, P3B, B+, A+ and a B2. See: https://www.cpmspectrepi.uk/raspberry_pi/raspiidx.htm

nelson.graham
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Re: The most stubborn pi3 around. I HAVE GONE UP AND DOWN THE STICKY

Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:15 pm

davidcoton wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:45 am
Gavinmc42 wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:23 am

Grab the Rasbian image, the smaller versions takes less time to write.
Etcher it to a USB stick, then try to boot from that.
If stick has LED you should see it blink when the Pi accesses the stick.
I boot my dev Pi3B+ from a USB caddy 2.5" SSD, no uSD at all.
This will work on 3B+ and 3A+ models, on 3B the OTP bit needs to be set first, which required a boot from SDCard....

@nelson.graham, is it a 3B or 3B+ ? Not sure it makes any difference, I think the rainbow screen means the power rails are all present.
It is just a regular 3B

nelson.graham
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Re: The most stubborn pi3 around. I HAVE GONE UP AND DOWN THE STICKY

Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:19 pm

HawaiianPi wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:23 am
nelson.graham wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:59 am
So I have had my Rpi 3 model B for a couple of months now
3B or the newer 3B+ model? If it's the 3B+ you could try booting from a USB flash drive, as suggested above.
All I ever get is a red power light and rainbow screen.
That means the system is getting enough power to at least fire up the GPU (rainbow screen is a GPU test).
Never any green light or other screen activity.
What are you using for a screen?
I have been through 3 different power supplies. An official Rpi unit, a cheap amazon one and a CanaKit unit. None of them have resulted in any change. I probed the power pins on the board with my multi meter and each PSU is outputting over 2.5A and over 5V so I am confident that power is not the issue.
I'm not buying that. I have load tested the Canakit PSU, and it could not maintain 5V at full load. It was still above the minimum recommended 4.75V, but it was definitely less that 5V. How did you load test these results?
I am aware that all Rpi boards are said to have been functional when they left the factory but at this point I am questioning whether or not my board is DOA or not. I do not have access to a 2nd pi to test and I don’t really want to shell out more money than I already have just to find the same issues again.
If you believe it's a hardware defect, then the odds of you receiving another dud are highly unlikely. Do you know anyone else with a Pi. Check local schools, libraries or code clubs to see if you can find someone to help you (or another Pi you could use to troubleshoot).

Adding your location to your profile might help you find someone nearby willing to help.
I am using an Asus desktop monitor connected with an HDMI cable.
I have also probed the power and ground pins on the board with a multimeter while using the CanaKit PSU and it read 5.13V and 2.56A. I don't have any solid way of checking these values under load but the CanaKit unit seems to have worked well for others so I'm fairly certain that isn't the problem.

k-pi
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Re: The most stubborn pi3 around. I HAVE GONE UP AND DOWN THE STICKY

Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:23 pm

Have you tried another mSDHC card? ........or are you still using the one that isn't booting?

PhatFil
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Re: The most stubborn pi3 around. I HAVE GONE UP AND DOWN THE STICKY

Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:31 pm

fwiw when using etcher to write an image if the write speed is significantly slower than 20mb/s consider a new source for your sd cards as its Not a class 10 and may not be the reported size.. ie its probably a fake.. 4 x 16gb sandisk ultra c10 bought at a bargain price from an amazon seller with great feedback led me down a very similar path, not having terms of reference i didnt think anything was wrong with the max 5mb/s usually less than 2mb/s speed at which etcher wrote to the sd cards (i had bought the cards a while back and kept them in a drawer for months before getting round to the fun n games with the Pi, when i went to look how to complain the seller was long gone and the amazon warranty period had long expired..

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rpdom
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Re: The most stubborn pi3 around. I HAVE GONE UP AND DOWN THE STICKY

Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:59 pm

nelson.graham wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:19 pm
I have also probed the power and ground pins on the board with a multimeter while using the CanaKit PSU and it read 5.13V and 2.56A.
How did you measure the 2.56A? Where did you put the multimeter probes?

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Gavinmc42
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Re: The most stubborn pi3 around. I HAVE GONE UP AND DOWN THE STICKY

Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:40 am

It is just a regular 3B
Ouch.
My 3B's have had their OTP USB boot options programmed.

Would have to get RPF to confirm but the way this OTP bit is written was by the VC4 and not the Arm?
But that requires setting in the config.txt file on the uSD card.
Can this bit be programmed via the JTAG?
I think that i s how it is done in the factory.

Use another Pi as OpenOCD JTAG OTP programmer?

2.56 amps seems very high, are any parts getting very hot?
Cooked Pi, but VC4 still working?
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HawaiianPi
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Re: The most stubborn pi3 around. I HAVE GONE UP AND DOWN THE STICKY

Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:22 pm

nelson.graham wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:19 pm
I am using an Asus desktop monitor connected with an HDMI cable.
Does the monitor have more than one HDMI input (and is the correct one selected)?

Have you tested the HDMI cable and monitor with any other devices?

I have also probed the power and ground pins on the board with a multimeter while using the CanaKit PSU and it read 5.13V and 2.56A.
You could not possibly have measured 2.5+ amps on a non-booted Pi. Max current draw from a Pi 3B is around 1.3A, and the other 1.2A is for the USB ports. So the only way you could see that kind of current draw is with the CPU & GPU at 100% load, AND with something pulling 1.2A from the USB ports. Something is wrong with the way you are measuring power (or your DVM).

Either that, or your Pi has a major short-circuit, in which case the SoC (or something else on the board) should be very hot. Image
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davidcoton
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Re: The most stubborn pi3 around. I HAVE GONE UP AND DOWN THE STICKY

Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:40 pm

HawaiianPi wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:22 pm
nelson.graham wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:19 pm
I am using an Asus desktop monitor connected with an HDMI cable.
Does the monitor have more than one HDMI input (and is the correct one selected)?

Have you tested the HDMI cable and monitor with any other devices?

I have also probed the power and ground pins on the board with a multimeter while using the CanaKit PSU and it read 5.13V and 2.56A.
You could not possibly have measured 2.5+ amps on a non-booted Pi. Max current draw from a Pi 3B is around 1.3A, and the other 1.2A is for the USB ports. So the only way you could see that kind of current draw is with the CPU & GPU at 100% load, AND with something pulling 1.2A from the USB ports. Something is wrong with the way you are measuring power (or your DVM).

Either that, or your Pi has a major short-circuit, in which case the SoC (or something else on the board) should be very hot. Image
Or, he is trying to measure current in the same way that voltage is measured -- thus effectively shorting the 5V supply and risking file corruption and temporary or permanent Pi damage.
Current must ber measured by putting the ammeter in SERIES with the supply to the Pi. Not as easy to do as measuring voltage.
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nelson.graham
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Re: The most stubborn pi3 around. I HAVE GONE UP AND DOWN THE STICKY

Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:28 am

rpdom wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:59 pm
nelson.graham wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:19 pm
I have also probed the power and ground pins on the board with a multimeter while using the CanaKit PSU and it read 5.13V and 2.56A.
How did you measure the 2.56A? Where did you put the multimeter probes?
the two outside pins on the micro USB in on the board.

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rpdom
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Re: The most stubborn pi3 around. I HAVE GONE UP AND DOWN THE STICKY

Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:08 am

nelson.graham wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:28 am
the two outside pins on the micro USB in on the board.
See davidcoton's reply above. That is not the way to measure current.

andysilch
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Re: The most stubborn pi3 around. I HAVE GONE UP AND DOWN THE STICKY

Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:45 pm

nelson.graham wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:28 am
rpdom wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:59 pm
nelson.graham wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:19 pm
I have also probed the power and ground pins on the board with a multimeter while using the CanaKit PSU and it read 5.13V and 2.56A.
How did you measure the 2.56A? Where did you put the multimeter probes?
the two outside pins on the micro USB in on the board.
I would very seriously suggest you start to read some articles on how to use a multimeter before you start trying to test any other items. Measuring current effectively applies a near short across the test leads to ensure minimum current is dropped by the multimeter, and the tiny voltage dropped across this near short is measured to calculate current flowing - learn basic Ohms Law. Hopefully the meter is protected by a 10amp fuse or similar and I am very surprised any power supply that you have tried to read the current from has survived. In contrast a 12V lead-acid battery would easily exceed 10 amps and (hopefully) blow the fuse in the meter. SERIOUSLY do not try to measure anything mains related until you have a better understanding of what you are doing (actually never, just don't)!!!!

As you have been shorting out the power supply you have been effectively been turning the Pi on and off as you apply the leads. You cannot get an instant contact with your test leads so, at the millisecond timescale, you will be bouncing the power to the Pi on and off at a very fast rate which can induce voltage spikes in the circuitry - not many electronic items can survive that! I think you may have 'voided' your warranty on this! Get someone with a storage scope to demonstrate this to you or look for examples online.

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