Hal_cat
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Raspberry Pi Model 3 A+ will not boot

Sat Dec 01, 2018 7:21 pm

I have a new Model 3 A+, I have tried an existing SD card that works fine on a Model 3B+, and I initialized a NOOBS SD card from the most recent download (Nov. 23, 2018).

The red LED lights up on the board, but the green LED never does. The monitor says there is no sync. The power is from the 3B+, and the NOOBS SD card boots up on a 3B+.

Any ideas? Or should I return the board as bad?

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Burngate
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Re: Raspberry Pi Model 3 A+ will not boot

Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:51 am

Have you read through viewtopic.php?f=28&t=58151?

As far as I know, the 3A+ is almost identical to the 3B+, so what applies to the latter is valid for the former.
In particular, the bit in red about the 3v3 is valid.

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rpiMike
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Re: Raspberry Pi Model 3 A+ will not boot

Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:57 am

What power supply are you using?

drgeoff
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Re: Raspberry Pi Model 3 A+ will not boot

Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:31 am

rpiMike wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:57 am
What power supply are you using?
A PSU that is good enough to boot a 3B+ is more than good enough to boot a 3A+.

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FTrevorGowen
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Re: Raspberry Pi Model 3 A+ will not boot

Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:57 am

Hal_cat wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 7:21 pm
I have a new Model 3 A+, I have tried an existing SD card that works fine on a Model 3B+, and I initialized a NOOBS SD card from the most recent download (Nov. 23, 2018).

The red LED lights up on the board, but the green LED never does. The monitor says there is no sync. The power is from the 3B+, and the NOOBS SD card boots up on a 3B+.

Any ideas? Or should I return the board as bad?
What (version/date of) O.S. is on the P3B+ SD card? What, if anything, is plugged in to the P3A+'s USB port? Did you retry the NOOBS card on the P3A+ after it had booted and installed an O.S. (Raspbian?) when used in the P3B+? (I've not used NOOBS with a P3A+ but I have moved a recent Raspbian imaged SD card, written via Etcher, from a P3B+ and also a clone of it on a USB stick to a P3A+, usually with a keyboard/trackpad wireless dongle plugged in to the USB port, using an older version of the official PSU for either Pi, and both Pi's booted O.K. from the SD card or USB stick.)
Trev.
Still running Raspbian Jessie or Stretch on some older Pi's (an A, B1, B2, B+, P2B, 3xP0, P0W, 2xP3A+, P3B+, P3B, B+, A+ and a B2) but Buster on the P4B's. See: https://www.cpmspectrepi.uk/raspberry_pi/raspiidx.htm

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hansotten
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Re: Raspberry Pi Model 3 A+ will not boot

Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:02 am

Update your software on the card. The A+ is supported only since a month or so..

Download the latest and burn with Etcher.
http://duinorasp.hansotten.com for Raspberry Pi and Arduino and ESP8266
http://retro.hansotten.nl for retrocomputing with the 6502 cpu

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Re: Raspberry Pi Model 3 A+ will not boot

Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:55 pm

I am only able to boot my RPi3A+ using a microSDHC card & a wireless keyboard/mousepad, normal USB keyboard & mouse don't receive enough power via a USB non powered hub.

Whilst it will boot from a pendrive, it won't boot with a keyboard & mouse attached, (so you might be able to use a command line & keyboard), if that suits your needs.

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rpiMike
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Re: Raspberry Pi Model 3 A+ will not boot

Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:05 pm

Mine boots fine with a wired keyboard and mouse and a non-powered usb splitter. Using the official 5.1V 2.5Amp 18AWG cable psu.

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Re: Raspberry Pi Model 3 A+ will not boot

Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:21 pm

k-pi wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:55 pm
I am only able to boot my RPi3A+ using a microSDHC card & a wireless keyboard/mousepad, normal USB keyboard & mouse don't receive enough power via a USB non powered hub.

Whilst it will boot from a pendrive, it won't boot with a keyboard & mouse attached, (so you might be able to use a command line & keyboard), if that suits your needs.
That sounds like a bad PI, as its shoudl work fine under those circumstances.
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drgeoff
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Re: Raspberry Pi Model 3 A+ will not boot

Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:13 pm

jamesh wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:21 pm
k-pi wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:55 pm
I am only able to boot my RPi3A+ using a microSDHC card & a wireless keyboard/mousepad, normal USB keyboard & mouse don't receive enough power via a USB non powered hub.

Whilst it will boot from a pendrive, it won't boot with a keyboard & mouse attached, (so you might be able to use a command line & keyboard), if that suits your needs.
That sounds like a bad PI, as its shoudl work fine under those circumstances.
I disagree. I think neither a power problem nor a bad RPi. It's a fact that some USB hubs just don't work properly when directly connected to the USB port of a Broadcom 2835/6/7.

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Re: Raspberry Pi Model 3 A+ will not boot

Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:19 pm

drgeoff wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:13 pm
I disagree. I think neither a power problem nor a bad RPi. It's a fact that some USB hubs just don't work properly when directly connected to the USB port of a Broadcom 2835/6/7.
Could be. I have a Zero that runs fine with wired keyboard and mouse on one USB hub, but not with another. It isn't a power issue as I'm running it from the USB port on my desk IP phone which is powered from PoE.

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Re: Raspberry Pi Model 3 A+ will not boot

Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:58 am

Why would a dicky USB hub stop it booting?

OP says green LED doesn't flash, so it's not reading the SD card.

Other's problems with USB hubs / keyboards/ mice is irrelevant, here

Hal_cat
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Re: Raspberry Pi Model 3 A+ will not boot

Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:59 pm

Having read the comments, I made new attempts today.
1. Previously I had tried to boot with a breadboard attached. Not a brilliant idea. Without the breadboard I could get the green light (ACT) to blink a few times.
2. I upgraded my B+ software to the latest and greatest on the B+ (I'm using Stretch), and rebooted. Worked OK on the B+. With B+ SD card in the A+ I do get a few blinks out of the green LED, but the screen never changes from the colored square.
3. The NOOBS did boot on the A+, and is now installed.
4. The B+ SD card is a SanDisk Ultra, 16GB. The NOOBS card is a Samsung 32 EVO Select.
Both are class 10.
5. Keyboard and mouse are through a powered hub.
Follow up:
Power in is 5V 3A
A+ without breadboard: 3.3V, with breadboard, 3.23V
B+ without breadboard: 3.3V, with breadboard, 3.25V
NOOBS boots up B+ as well as A+.
One device on the breadboard is an adafruit 12 channel PWM LED controller. Moving its Vcc from the 3.3V to the 5.0V bus enables the NOOBS SD to boot.
One more thought-- I ran rpi-update on my old SD card, bringing me up to rip-4.14.y The old card STILL will not boot the A+.
This is now annoying only because I have all my python environments set up, and redoing them on the NOOBS card will be time consuming.
At least the A+ is operational. Thanks to the many comments which got my thinking into different directions.

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Re: Raspberry Pi Model 3 A+ will not boot

Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:06 pm

Hal_cat wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:59 pm
Having read the comments, I made new attempts today.
1. Previously I had tried to boot with a breadboard attached. Not a brilliant idea. Without the breadboard I could get the green light (ACT) to blink a few times.
2. I upgraded my B+ software to the latest and greatest on the B+ (I'm using Stretch), and rebooted. Worked OK on the B+. With B+ SD card in the A+ I do get a few blinks out of the green LED, but the screen never changes from the colored square.
3. The NOOBS did boot on the A+, and is now installed.
4. The B+ SD card is a SanDisk Ultra, 16GB. The NOOBS card is a Samsung 32 EVO Select.
Both are class 10.
5. Keyboard and mouse are through a powered hub.
Follow up:
Power in is 5V 3A
A+ without breadboard: 3.3V, with breadboard, 3.23V
B+ without breadboard: 3.3V, with breadboard, 3.25V
NOOBS boots up B+ as well as A+.
One device on the breadboard is an adafruit 12 channel PWM LED controller. Moving its Vcc from the 3.3V to the 5.0V bus enables the NOOBS SD to boot.
One more thought-- I ran rpi-update on my old SD card, bringing me up to rip-4.14.y The old card STILL will not boot the A+.
This is now annoying only because I have all my python environments set up, and redoing them on the NOOBS card will be time consuming.
At least the A+ is operational. Thanks to the many comments which got my thinking into different directions.

If you use NoobS to install Raspbian Stretch, then you may need to also update NoobS itself to support the 3A+

Regards rpi-update it has not been recommended for years as it installs a testing kernel / firmware.
Retired disgracefully.....

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Re: Raspberry Pi Model 3 A+ will not boot

Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:10 pm

Hal_cat wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:59 pm
1. Previously I had tried to boot with a breadboard attached.
I object!
I most strenuously object!
You changed the rules of the game without telling us!

More seriously, you hadn't mentioned a breadboard in your first post, nor anything on it.
It doesn't help us help you if you miss out important information.
With B+ SD card in the A+ I do get a few blinks out of the green LED, but the screen never changes from the colored square.
The blinking LED implies the card is being read.

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Re: Raspberry Pi Model 3 A+ will not boot

Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:59 pm

Hal_cat wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:59 pm
One device on the breadboard is an adafruit 12 channel PWM LED controller. Moving its Vcc from the 3.3V to the 5.0V bus enables the NOOBS SD to boot.
There was a thread about different HATs which directly used the Pi's 3V3 which, although fine on a 3B, stopped a 3B+ from booting. Deriving the HAT's 3V3 via a regulator from the Pi's 5V resolved those issues, allowed booting -

viewtopic.php?t=220527

This sounds like the same or at least a similar issue. It wouldn't be surprising if a problem with the 3B+ also exists with a 3A+ which likely uses the same power management scheme.

No one seems to have determined what the issue is and I don't know if anyone ever investigated what the cause is.

With Pi 3B+ failures under short-circuit conditions the PMIC should prevent, randomly failing, and not booting up in some circumstances when 3V3 is used; the power management for the Pi 3B+, and likely 3A+, doesn't seem to be as reliable or as robust as I would have expected it to be.

geoharvey
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Re: Raspberry Pi Model 3 A+ will not boot

Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:15 pm

My model 3 A+ would not boot initially. I tried different sd cards with different versions of the operating system. While all the cards worked on a model 3 B+, some did not work on the model 3 A+. When I ran "uname -a" on one I finally left in the computer, I got this:

Linux raspberrypi 4.14.71-v7 #1145 SMP Fri Sep 21 15:38:35 BST 2018 armv71 GNU/Linux

The sense I get is that the older versions are unlikely to work but the newer versions are all right.

molybdenumcadmium
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Re: Raspberry Pi Model 3 A+ will not boot

Sat Dec 15, 2018 3:35 pm

I had exactly the same issues as Hal_Cat and others: my new Model A+ would not boot with an up-to-date card and power supply combo that boots every Pi B and Zero W in the house... uname - a tells me this card is
4.14.79-v7+ #1159 (for clarity this is an older Rasbian image that I have run sudo apt-get update and
sudo apt-get dist-upgrade on)

However I downloaded a (14 Dec 2018) fresh Rasbian image which does boot the Model A and weirdly it is the same .. 4.14.79-v7+ #1159 - so I have no idea what's going on

(It's a bit annoying as I now have to set up a totally new environment rather than just cloning an existing card, plus I also had a back and forth email correspondence with supplier as I thought my A+ was faulty. As it is I have no idea of the problem, only the solution.)
Hope someone finds this helpful
Regards

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Re: Raspberry Pi Model 3 A+ will not boot

Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:16 pm

Uname is only telling you the linux kernel version which will indicate if it is new enough to include the correct drivers for the 3A+. But it does not indicate the firmware version. An up to date firmware is required for the 3A+ to ensure the hardware can be controlled and booted correctly.
PINN - NOOBS with the extras... https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=142574

molybdenumcadmium
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Re: Raspberry Pi Model 3 A+ will not boot

Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:55 pm

Thanks for the explanation: I'll cut to the question, after running run sudo apt-get update and
sudo apt-get dist-upgrade an older SD card Rasbian in a B+, is there anything you can do to get this card to work with an A+? Thanks

(I ran cat /proc/cpuinfo and I can see that as well as having the same kernel number, all else is the same except the older card in the B + shows: Hardware: BCM2835 Revision: a02082, wheres the newer card in the A+ shows Hardware: BCM2835
Revision: 9020e0 (I'm not even sure I am looking at the right thing here..)

Seanygh
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Re: Raspberry Pi Model 3 A+ will not boot

Mon Dec 24, 2018 8:54 am

I can only run latest noobs, retropie or recalbox dont run on latest pi, even if you use b+ version on both they will not boot up. Hopefully 2019 this will be sorted until then £30 wasted. Unless anyone managed to get recalbox running, if so can you let me know how.

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Re: Raspberry Pi Model 3 A+ will not boot

Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:55 am

Seanygh wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 8:54 am
I can only run latest noobs, retropie or recalbox dont run on latest pi, even if you use b+ version on both they will not boot up. Hopefully 2019 this will be sorted until then £30 wasted. Unless anyone managed to get recalbox running, if so can you let me know how.
Note that RetroPie, RecalBox, and anything that isn't Raspbian is not something produced by the RPF, so therefor we are not reponsible for keeping them updated. All of our distro should work correctly, if they don't let us know. Please remember that when venting!
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rpiMike
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Re: Raspberry Pi Model 3 A+ will not boot

Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:10 pm

Seanygh wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 8:54 am
I can only run latest noobs, retropie or recalbox dont run on latest pi, even if you use b+ version on both they will not boot up. Hopefully 2019 this will be sorted until then £30 wasted. Unless anyone managed to get recalbox running, if so can you let me know how.
Retropie 4.4 does work on the Pi3B+. You should be able to update Stretch on that version to work on the Pi3A+.

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