jamesh
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Re: Faulty Raspberries

Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:06 am

SN wrote:As a multi Pi owner of ooooo six months now and frequent visitor to this board I have to say that the incidence of "broken Pi's" seems to have jumped significantly in the last month or so. Now this is either because

a) there's an underlying problem with a recent batch or batches
b) there are tons more Pi's out there and thus chances of failure are higher
c) people are just more vocal about issues now

Just my view. Would be interested to know the Foundations view...
I think its just down to the huge volumes being sold - I think 1000's per day are going out of the door, and the total installed base. Since only 'bad' reports end up here its does look like an increase, but I 'think' it's statistically insignificant.
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Burngate
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Re: Faulty Raspberries

Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:00 pm

There was a serious drop-off in the design and marketing of the Raspberry Pi, right from its birth six years ago.

Here is what should have happened.

The Pi should be sold at a premium of $100
Hard-wired into the SoC silicon should be a bit of code that forces the purchaser to run a series of tests, lasting no less than 24 hours.
On completion, an E-mail is sent to Raspberry Towers reporting pass/fail
If a fail is reported, a courier is despatched to collect the Pi for replacement.
A pass automatically refunds the purchaser with $65

That way we could have amassed some decent statistics

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Re: Faulty Raspberries

Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:44 pm

jamesh wrote: I think its just down to the huge volumes being sold - I think 1000's per day are going out of the door, and the total installed base. Since only 'bad' reports end up here its does look like an increase, but I 'think' it's statistically insignificant.
Perhaps I am mistaken but I don't recall any of the recent spate of "my RPi stops working within a few minutes of being powered up" posters stating their units came from Farnell/Element 14. If it really is the case that all of those are from an exclusively RS production line, I would find that a significant fact.
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liz
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Re: Faulty Raspberries

Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:54 pm

I wonder if there was a small crystal batch that was faulty - (this is ONLY me wondering; we don't have any data on that). We have noticed what you've been saying here and have asked RS to let us know what they find when these boards are returned.
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Re: Faulty Raspberries

Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:42 pm

jamesh wrote:I think its just down to the huge volumes being sold - I think 1000's per day are going out of the door, and the total installed base. Since only 'bad' reports end up here its does look like an increase, but I 'think' it's statistically insignificant.
I think you are probably correct, but the part that is depressing is that while statistically insignificant, to the individuals involved with getting a faulty board it is very personally significant. I know you and the Foundation folks both know that already.

People are waiting weeks to months for their Raspberry Pi's and then to receive a broken one can be heart breaking almost. People love these little things and look forward to using them and learning and doing some of the cool things with them they read about here and dreamed up on their own, a faulty board really disappoints people, which often quickly turns to frustration.

This post is more for folks with a faulty pi: Hang in there. Things will get sorted out and you will get a good working Raspberry Pi from the folks you purchased it from. It does not feel very good, but know you are helping the whole Raspberry Pi community by doing some testing to confirm your board is faulty and then returning it for a replacement.

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Re: Faulty Raspberries

Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:27 am

It's crazy!

I got 6 pcs at last week, 1 broken.
I got 4 today, 2 broken!

This is madness.

I also fill RMA form at Farnell site at last week and steel no action from their side.

jamesh
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Re: Faulty Raspberries

Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:18 pm

FFAMax wrote:It's crazy!

I got 6 pcs at last week, 1 broken.
I got 4 today, 2 broken!

This is madness.

I also fill RMA form at Farnell site at last week and steel no action from their side.
That sounds odd. Are these all made in UK devices? Do you know in what way they are broken?
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Re: Faulty Raspberries

Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:51 pm

Judging by the postings across the web lately it looks like the pi people have a serious quality control problem, although honestly I have no way of knowing the percentage of defects. All I know is that I have no plans on ordering any more units until this is resolved and there is some kind of response from the organization via these forums or preferably on their web site.
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Re: Faulty Raspberries

Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:05 pm

I got my first Raspberry Pi from Farnell/Element 14 yesterday and as far as I can tell it does not work

http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewt ... 28&t=25298

I am of course spending more money on different a SD Card and power supply - because everybody says that is what might be wrong, but I am far from hopeful.

So much for a simple computer for a kid to learn on...

jamesh
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Re: Faulty Raspberries

Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:51 pm

pjc123 wrote:Judging by the postings across the web lately it looks like the pi people have a serious quality control problem, although honestly I have no way of knowing the percentage of defects. All I know is that I have no plans on ordering any more units until this is resolved and there is some kind of response from the organization via these forums or preferably on their web site.
Actually, the percentage of failed units is really low (lower than industry average I believe). Given there are many thousands made per week, and the number of problems reported is still sane, you can make your own assessment. The levels of problems being seen does NOT indicate a serious quality control problem. It indicates the usual response of people with problems being much more noticeable and vocal that people without them. Understandably.

That said, I'll chat with people to see if anything unusual has happened. In the meantime, if you have a broken Raspi, RMA it and you will get a replacement.
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Re: Faulty Raspberries

Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:57 pm

If there is a problem...it may in the delivery. As my latest Pi was packed to much lighter package than the previous ones.
All fine, no problems, but the package looked bad when it arrived.

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Re: Faulty Raspberries

Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:59 pm

jamesh wrote:Given there are many thousands made per week, and the number of problems reported is still sane
Hey!

No report?
Yep!
I wrote to Farnell managers about broken Pi, ask about RMA - no results. (26 nov)
I fill RMA form at last week - no result, i still have no RMA number and can not send broken items to Farnell.
At this time i try to resolv this problem with "Sales Administrator Raspberry Pi".

I know one thing - at this moment no support.

From my first post I still have no chance to return broken Pi devices.

And i say it as reseller.
And i think end-user have same problem.
"I compassion"(sorry for my eng.) for people who bought the first raspberries and it was broken.

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Re: Faulty Raspberries

Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:24 pm

jamesh wrote: That said, I'll chat with people to see if anything unusual has happened.
That would be helpful. Also, I do understand that some of these complaints are the user's doing as well (incompatible peripherals that do not work, ESD damage, handling/connecting to/shorting out pins/traces/components, improper imaging of the operating system, configuration errors, abuse, etc.). That is to be expected when delivering a product without a case to a lot of people that have no formal electronics or computer knowledge and/or training. But the things I am reading about are things like bad solder joints, multiple pis being ordered with multiple defective devices, etc. I must say that my pi was ordered on day 1 and has been flawless ever since.
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jamesh
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Re: Faulty Raspberries

Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:38 pm

FFAMax wrote:
jamesh wrote:Given there are many thousands made per week, and the number of problems reported is still sane
Hey!

No report?
Yep!
I wrote to Farnell managers about broken Pi, ask about RMA - no results. (26 nov)
I fill RMA form at last week - no result, i still have no RMA number and can not send broken items to Farnell.
At this time i try to resolv this problem with "Sales Administrator Raspberry Pi".

I know one thing - at this moment no support.

From my first post I still have no chance to return broken Pi devices.

And i say it as reseller.
And i think end-user have same problem.
"I compassion"(sorry for my eng.) for people who bought the first raspberries and it was broken.
Sorry that you are having problems RMA'ing. There are people who have had their Raspi replaced very quickly, so I am not sure what has gone wrong here. Fortunately your experience is in the minority, which is of course of no help to you, and all I can suggest is you keep trying with Farnell.
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Re: Faulty Raspberries

Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:31 am

antoniomilano wrote:In my opinion they are not tested.
They ARE tested. First of all they would only test that they booted into lxde. Later on when a batch went out with USB and ethernet not working, the tests now involves a USB and ethernet test.

Unfortunately, once it's in xwindows, they just power it off and throw it in the good pile. So this problem of it going dead after 3 to 4 mins was never discovered at the factory.

Image

Guess what it says under the Made in China sticker ;)

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Re: Faulty Raspberries

Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:02 am

toysareforboys wrote: Guess what it says under the Made in China sticker ;)
I think it was assembled in China.

I know that they may be assembled at different factories (AU, SG, CN, UK)

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Re: Faulty Raspberries

Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:24 am

FFAMax wrote:I think it was assembled in China.
It says Made in the UK under the sticker! LOL!

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Re: Faulty Raspberries

Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:26 am

toysareforboys wrote:
FFAMax wrote:I think it was assembled in China.
It says Made in the UK under the sticker! LOL!

-Jamie M.
yes these will be farnell ones, they make the bare board in the UK and ship those to China for filling up with parts [possibly]
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Re: Faulty Raspberries

Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:48 am

antoniomilano wrote: In my opinion they are not tested.
Well, at least you can see for yourself that the UK ones are being tested. Not yet a week ago there has been a video of the production facilities in Wales that shows the test in progress. See http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/2675. At 2 minutes and ten seconds into the video you see the PI's being loaded with an SD card and cables being plugged in, then the PI goes into a kind of "press" thats actually a "testbed", it wil also use spring contacts ("pogo pins") to test, and perhaps program, the chips on board using the two JTAG headers on the board. Its quite possible the GPIO pins are tested the same way. One of the plugged in cables is the HDMI cable, so they do test if the board boots into the desktop. There are two testbeds visible, so that the operator doesn't have to wait for the test to finish, but can replace one board with another while the test is running on the other testbed. Also note the number of high-speed cables plugged in to the back of the testbed box, there is more going on in there than you at first might think.

I must assume the Chinese factories have a similar setup.

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Re: Faulty Raspberries

Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:46 pm

Assuming things is very bad in electronics.
If you ask someone a question, and he responds I assume....
it means he simply doesn't know the answer either. :D

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Re: Faulty Raspberries

Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:21 am

Hi, duff crystals sounds plausible.
I have seen this happen before on another device and sometimes spot heating of the xtal will start it up again; seems that the problem is overheating of the xtal damaging the internal contacts which are similar to the ones found on piezo transformers and speakers.

Its also a common problem on certain LCD TVs using a particular chipset, sometimes its the 14.318 MHz one which goes bad and results in the infamous "black screen of doom".

Also, if the OP can try my test then it could provide valuable data.

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