RS/Farnell Incompatibilities

[Sandgrounder]

I now have two Pis :-

- The first is from RS - delivered in August (so 256M)
- With it I got a 4 GB Transcend SD card with "Raspberry Pi OS installed"

- The second is from Element14 delivered today (so 512M)
- With it I got a 4 GB Element14 SD card with "Debian 6 for Linux"

The Element14 SD card will work in both Raspberry Pis, but the Transcend SD card will not work in the new Raspberry Pi from Element14

Both Debian systems say that they are version 6.1.9+, but they are different! The build from Element14 has a tool called Raspi-config, but the build from RS does not.

What is going on?

I have spent a fair amount of time setting the RS build to do what I want (fixed IP address, adding Apache, BIND, FTP server, etc, etc) and now it will not work on the new Pi. Do I have to start over and rebuild everything the the build from Element14?

[drgeoff]

That one RPi came from RS and the other from Farnell is probably totally irrelevant. It is very much more likely that the issue you are experiencing is that one has 256 Mbyte of RAM and the other has 512.

As I don't have a 512 RPi I haven't been meticulously following the posts but I think there have been a few about it needing some updated files. eg http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewt ... 63&t=20255

[rickseiden]

One OS is for sure Raspian, a Debian based Linux distro. It's the one that has the rapsi-config. Can't say much about the other one, the whole 512/256 is a great starting point.

[itimpi]

The 256/512 MB is not likely to be an issue. The modded firmware to recognise the extra RAM on 512MB models works fine on the 256 MB models. I have no problems moving cards between my 256MB And 512MB Pi's.

[drgeoff]

The 256/512 MB is not likely to be an issue. The modded firmware to recognise the extra RAM on 512MB models works fine on the 256 MB models. I have no problems moving cards between my 256MB And 512MB Pi's.

But my understanding of the first post in this topic is that the "256 firmware" card does not work in the 512 RPi, while the "512 firmware"card works in both 256 and 512 RPis. Which is to be expected.

Can Sandgrounder simply copy the files in the FAT partition of his new card to the FAT partition of his old card to make that one (with all his setups) work in both his 256 and 512 RPis??

[Lob0426]

The card that came with your 512MB has a 512 firmware. It will not boot in the 256MB device. The 256MB card will boot in both, but you will only be able to use 256MB in the 512 device.

[drgeoff]

The card that came with your 512MB has a 512 firmware. It will not boot in the 256MB device. The 256MB card will boot in both, but you will only be able to use 256MB in the 512 device.

That is not what Sandgrounder reports as his experience - he says the 512 card boots in both but the 256 card will only boot in the 256 RPi.

Nor is it what itimpi says above - the 512 firmware will work on both 256 and 512 RPis.

[Lob0426]

The card that came with your 512MB has a 512 firmware. It will not boot in the 256MB device. The 256MB card will boot in both, but you will only be able to use 256MB in the 512 device.

That is not what Sandgrounder reports as his experience - he says the 512 card boots in both but the 256 card will only boot in the 256 RPi.

Nor is it what itimpi says above - the 512 firmware will work on both 256 and 512 RPis.

Sorry your right!

Then he is not seeing 512MB on the 512 RasPi and the card will need to be updated with new firmware to get the 512MB. The cards with settings for the 512MB will not boot in a 256MB RasPi without changing the settings. So there is no explanation as to why the card from RS is not booting in the 256MB board.

You might check for a bent SD card slot pin on the Element 14 RasPi. It might not be making contact.

[drgeoff]

The card that came with your 512MB has a 512 firmware. It will not boot in the 256MB device. The 256MB card will boot in both, but you will only be able to use 256MB in the 512 device.

That is not what Sandgrounder reports as his experience - he says the 512 card boots in both but the 256 card will only boot in the 256 RPi.

Nor is it what itimpi says above - the 512 firmware will work on both 256 and 512 RPis.

Sorry your right!

Then he is not seeing 512MB on the 512 RasPi and the card will need to be updated with new firmware to get the 512MB. The cards with settings for the 512MB will not boot in a 256MB RasPi without changing the settings. So there is no explanation as to why the card from RS is not booting in the 256MB board.

You might check for a bent SD card slot pin on the Element 14 RasPi. It might not be making contact.

If you carefully read the first post, you will realise that the card from RS is booting in the 256 RPi and that both the 256M and 512M RAM RPis are working, so no possibility of a bent SD card slot pin.

(And a free English lesson: "you are" can be contracted to "you're" but not "your".)

[Vindicator]

Free does not mean worthwhile in this case as I see a problem in YOUR grammar also in that "says" should be more like "said" should it not.

None of this is helping the OP so maybe stick to the content of the thread rather than focusing on a miniscule grammar problem.

[Lob0426]

If you carefully read the first post, you will realise that the card from RS is booting in the 256 RPi and that both the 256M and 512M RAM RPis are working, so no possibility of a bent SD card slot pin.

(And a free English lesson: "you are" can be contracted to "you're" but not "your".)

And your Lesson @drgeoff. Contractions are for people that are lazy! Misuse is for everyone! The same for tweeting and texting.

Spend a little time helping him with his problem rather than picking apart the other posters grammar. You must be an English teacher, cannot see the forest, for the grammar!

Besides I am American and I consider it my god given and constitutional right to mangle the English language into American!

A 256MB firmware will work in either a 256MB device or a 512MB device. The 512MB device will only see 256MB, but it will boot. If it is a 512MB firmware IT WILL NOT BOOT in a 256MB device. At least that is what has been stated by the owners of the 512MB board owners so far.

The version of the device is also not an issue. There are no software differences between version 1.0, 1.1, 2.0, or 2.0 512MB. There are hardware differences! but the software is interchangeable between all versions. The firmware is only different on the 512MB device.

I have a RS ver 1.0 and Farnell version 1.0. Except for some component branding differences they are electrically similar. My several different images work on all of the 4 RasPii that I have. So that is not the cause either.

One SD card is not working. That Transcend card should be able to work in either device, as the firmware is only for a 256MB device. That card may not be perfectly up to SD card specification, i.e. the contacts might not be in the absolute correct place, or might be offset due to an offset injection mold. It is worth a look. The SD socket might be slightly out of alignment also. It aligns decently with one card but not the other. It does not appear to be a firmware issue at all. The Element14 card is working in both devices, this means it probably does not have a 512MB firmware. He will have to update the firmware of that card to utilize all 512MB on the new Raspberry Pi.

"he says" rather "he said" or "he stated" and your punctuation is at least as bad as mine always is. Come on, find something else to gripe about please. And help the guy out while you are at it!

[itimpi]

A 256MB firmware will work in either a 256MB device or a 512MB device. The 512MB device will only see 256MB, but it will boot. If it is a 512MB firmware IT WILL NOT BOOT in a 256MB device. At least that is what has been stated by the owners of the 512MB board owners so far.

The version of the device is also not an issue. There are no software differences between version 1.0, 1.1, 2.0, or 2.0 512MB. There are hardware differences! but the software is interchangeable between all versions. The firmware is only different on the 512MB device.

If you have the latest firmware then cards ARE fully interchangeable between 256MB and 512MB models and I am now doing it on a regular basis. The confusion may have arisen because for a few days after the 512MB model came out there were some special start.elf files released for the 512MB model giving 512MB specific GPU ram splits and these were incompatible with the 256MB model. However the latest firmware no longer uses the start.elf method of determining the GPU ram, so this issue has gone.

[Lob0426]

Thats good to hear!
I have 4 of the 256MB devices and 3 512MB on the way. It will good to have the cards completely interchangeable.

The OP's transcend card probably does not have the latest firmware on it. I doubt that the Element14 card has it either. I know that the old 512MB firmware elf's failed to boot in 256MB RasPii. That also does not appear to be his problem. The old firmware, on the transcend, should have worked in the 512MB RasPi. It is not working, so I suspect there is a hardware glitch here somewhere.

The SD card holders were not chosen for their durability. They were chosen to reduce the price. A number of people have had problems with them. Especially with breakage and looseness. The OP might want to hold pressure on the card while he tries to boot it and see if that helps at all. There continues to be problems with the card holders so I suspect that is where the problem might just be. I know that if one of my RasPi decides not to boot, I need to wiggle the darn card and then it usually will boot.

[Lob0426]

@itimpi:
thank you for the info. Ran rpi-update and fixed config.txt. Now I am ready for those 512MB's when they come in! Rpi-update was not working for me yesterday for some reason.

I will copy /boot over to the my other cards then I do not have to worry about which memory size I put a card into.
gpu_mem_256=64
gpu_mem_512=128

[Dweeber]

The new firmware which allows for the definition of the memory sizes in the config.txt was a great advancement... made dealing with setting GPU memory requirements easier and allows for interchanging the same cards between devices.

I don't see much point in purchasing a "loaded" card since things are still changing a lot. All it takes i the first corruption and you are going to reload it anyway. Also, when you use one of the preloaded cards and do a simple update/upgrade you have already changed the base Debian version anyway. I'd spend the extra on having additional cards for backups and spares instead. They are relatively cheap (16GB MicroSDHC with SDCard adapter ~$9 US ea).

I use a system where I have a master copy which I then copy to other cards to use in the other units keeping the master up to date and backed up regularly. This protects against a corrupted card which can happen and having to start over with a fresh distro. After a while you will have loaded and configured enough other packages and stuff that you now have put some time into the endeavor.

With the new memory models, I can interchange the master copy between the 2 256mb RPi's and the 512mb version with more coming. The only limitation I will end up with soon is the limit of codec licenses....

When the 512mb versions become more plentiful I might just donate the 256mb versions and upgrade them all. The 512mb seems to run a bit faster and has enough memory to do whatever I plan on doing.

[Sandgrounder]

Hi Folks,

I have been following this with interest and waiting for a solution to my original problem. My thanks to those asking for the thread to concentrate on the original post.

In the meantime, I have re-built my 'standard' system onto the new Farnell supplied SD card, which will boot successfuly on either 256M or 512M Pis. My original problem was not solved but is now academic, although other people might still be interested in the answer.

Just for the record, there is no harware fault with any of my cards or any of the Raspberry Pis (I now have 3). They are all interchangeble with my new build. This was a firmware problem on the old (now superceded) RS card supplied in August.

I now need to find out how to make the firmware build use the 512M Ram, if available. But that is a subject to be dealt with elsewhere on these forums.

[drgeoff]

Free does not mean worthwhile in this case as I see a problem in YOUR grammar also in that "says" should be more like "said" should it not.

None of this is helping the OP so maybe stick to the content of the thread rather than focusing on a miniscule grammar problem.

@Vindicator
1. Seeing as you have made no contribution whatsoever to helping with the original problem, the words pot, kettle and black seem appropriate. I, on the other hand was the first to point Sandgrounder in the right direction (though I admitted up-front to not being able to give him a ready-to-go solution) and I also pointed out that the input from Lob0426 in two of his posts was not consistent with the reported symptoms and thus, by implication, was of dubious helpfulness.
2. The ratio of the extent of my technical input on the original problem to the extent of my English lesson does not support your claim of my "focusing" (your word) on the latter.
3. There is nothing grammatically incorrect in "Nor is it what itimpi says above". I recognise that some others would use "said" rather than "says". That is semantics not grammar. But I maintain that either is acceptable English in the case in question; "says" is not incorrect. For examples, see the headline in http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/ ... 1220121023 and the third paragraph in http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-17828729.

[drgeoff]

Besides I am American and I consider it my god given and constitutional right to mangle the English language into American!

Despite the many liberties that Americans take and have taken with the Queen's English, the interchange of "your" (the possessive form of "you") and "you're" (a contraction of "you are") is hopefully not one of them .

Joking apart, this forum is read by many whose first language is not English, (British, American, Australian or whatever). We native speakers have some responsibility to use English properly. It doesn't help the others improve their English if we are lazy and slovenly with ours.

[itimpi]

I will copy /boot over to the my other cards then I do not have to worry about which memory size I put a card into.
gpu_mem_256=64
gpu_mem_512=128

Be careful doing this! Although this will give you up-to-date firmware you may have outdated kernel modules as they are also updated by rpi-update. This could cause things like WiFi cards to misbehave.. It might be advisable to either work out which additional files need copying, or run rpi-update for each card.

[Lob0426]

I made sure I have the latest kernels and firmware. My Lapdock with WiFi is working just fine.

My server did not like the upgrade after update and I had to reinstall an earlier save. I will try it again today. I never made it to rpi-update.

I would like to have the Lapdock SD and HDD ready for the 512MB boards when they arrive. I think they are now. The server will stay as a 256MB.

The info for the new firmware settings is kind of sketchy in the Wiki. it needs to be explained better there.

I wonder if the OP was able to get the other card working? It should be able to work.

[Sandgrounder]

I wonder if the OP was able to get the other card working? It should be able to work.

The card works fine in all my Pis. It was the old (256M) RS firmware which I never did get working on either of my 512M Pis from Farnell.

[Vindicator]

If this thread were about being a English lit major I would agree but these forums are for user of all walks of life and languages and are based in an international base of users and being particular about minor mistakes of grammar Etc. and this is more of a distraction from the content of this thread than it is helpful to the OP.
In my opinion correction would be useful only if it made the requested information more clear if there was confusion about what was asked or answered in the concurrent post of this or any thread.

These forums are not to teach English to the world and that is evident in the fact that there are parts of the forum for other language speakers of the world.

I personally wish I had spent more time learning other languages than only one language and could read some of the probably excellent information that is being missed by me and others that are hindered by only speaking English. (regardless of the mistakes that are being made)

[Vindicator]

BTW @itipmi I could not agree more and would suggest using the more acknowledged path of apt-get update then apt-get upgrade then rpi-update to get all of a users cards properly updated to use the newer 512Mb PI's

I would also suggest that you print or make a copy of config.txt and cmdline.txt before performing these updates as they sometimes get overwritten and need to be reconfigured for a users specific setup. (like my lapdock or if you are using a hard drive to contain your rootfs)

If the user is not editing these files for a specific setup then just perform the updates.

[Lob0426]

@drgeoff:
That is the problem, You are using Queens English! I am using AM-AIR-EE-CAN! . I do try to use proper (Maybe not Qeens) English. I do slip sometimes.

The worst people are the "texters".

So from now on I will use "ain't" and you have to figure out which one of the four I actually mean ("am not", "is not", "are not", "has not").

Or Jeff Foxworthy's favorite "Yuh'antoo"! . "Yuh'antoo see if that there pin is bent" or "Yuh'antoo get that fixt" or "Yuh'antoo g'out for a beer?". I guess I will have to stop using RasPi (Raspberry Pi) . NOT!

Besides in California "it is like, you have to like, talk right see, like, this see".

I know way too much information! WTMI!
I am sorry @drgeoff, I just could not resist!

@Sandgrounder:
I am glad you found the problem. I will have to try one of the Squeeze images to see if it fails on the 512MB. There will be others that have the same problem. So good information.

@itimpi:
I always use apt-get update and apt-get upgrade before I attemp rpi-update. For some reason My RasPi server is, more often than not, corrupted by rpi-update. It uses a Transcend 8GB SD card. These cards seem to have problems with the RasPi devices. I see lots of complaints about them.