alias_neo
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Re: Pi won't boot after update.

Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:40 pm

samsamsam wrote:I think that this is a similar problem to the http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewt ... 28&t=18896 and logs from RS232 can help to confirm this.
Please also remember that the your cmdline.txt should contain console=ttyAMA0,115200 kgdboc=ttyAMA0,115200.
Cool,

I'll give it all a test tonight when I get home, following that and failing progress from elsewhere I'll be parking the Pi pending RMA as it's taking up far too much of my time I had intended for Pi related development/interface work and with little I can really do other than obtain information on my end, it's becoming quite a frustration.

I'm aware that I can downgrade and have my Pi running, but considering this problem appears hardware specific (at least on the face of things) and the people writing the firmware have been unable to reproduce it; I don't want to be stuck with a piece of hardware I can't keep up-to date.
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dom
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Re: Pi won't boot after update.

Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:46 pm

alias_neo wrote:Can we expect any useful logging for such an early failure in the boot process? I take it bootcode and the start.elf should have some useful logging?
Serial ogging only comes from linux. You need to have got past the coloured splash screen (which start.elf puts up just before lloading linux kernel) to get anything useful out of serial logging.

alias_neo
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Re: Pi won't boot after update.

Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:11 pm

dom wrote:
alias_neo wrote:Can we expect any useful logging for such an early failure in the boot process? I take it bootcode and the start.elf should have some useful logging?
Serial ogging only comes from linux. You need to have got past the coloured splash screen (which start.elf puts up just before lloading linux kernel) to get anything useful out of serial logging.
Bah, that's a real shame, because my Pi certainly doesn't get as far as the colour splash. :(

or at least it doesn't give any output to show the coloured splash.

I'll try a quick test non the less as a last ditch effort but I know now not to be surprised if I get nothing back.

On failed boots all I get at the moment are two quick flashes of the OK/ACT light.

Is there any other form of access for logging the earlier stages?
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alias_neo
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Re: Pi won't boot after update.

Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:59 pm

samsamsam wrote:Maybe you use cutdown kernel. Please provide your kernel command line (content of \boot\cmdline.txt file).
FYI;

My cmdline.txt

dwc_otg.lpm_enable=0 console=ttyAMA0,115200 kgdboc=ttyAMA0,115200 console=tty1 root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 rootfstype=ext4 elevator=deadline rootwait


I suspect this therefore isn't using the cutdown kernel?
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alias_neo
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Re: Pi won't boot after update.

Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:20 pm

I tried the serial, but no result, as expected.

Interestingly though, if I switch the kernel.img with one from an older, booting firmware such as 793d107342ff2f88a1976c014c7ead5044b45376 it will boot, intermittently, one in 10 or so attempts.

Further, I have just noticed, on latest firmware, which is non-booting, that, after it flashes a couple of times and sits there doing nothing, 10 or so seconds later my monitor will receive a signal which gives it the pink bar down the left hand side (it shows "no signal" until this point).
pink.jpg
pink.jpg (47.38 KiB) Viewed 3359 times
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samsamsam
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Re: Pi won't boot after update.

Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:31 pm

OK but do you have log via RS232 when you use old kernel.img and the PI boots? Maybe your RS232 interface does not ok....

dom
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Re: Pi won't boot after update.

Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:32 pm


alias_neo
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Re: Pi won't boot after update.

Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:59 pm

dom wrote:@alias_neo
I've rebuilt the dropbox start_*.elf files on the build machine to see if the behaviour is any different. Also I think I wasn't going back far enough.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3669512/temp/start_333343.elf
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3669512/temp/start_333366.elf
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3669512/temp/start_333641.elf
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3669512/temp/start_333677.elf
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3669512/temp/start_333701.elf
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3669512/temp/start_333987.elf
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3669512/temp/start_334332.elf
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3669512/temp/start_334519.elf
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3669512/temp/start_334692.elf
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3669512/temp/start_335176.elf
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3669512/temp/start_335177.elf

start_333343.elf is from 25/08/2012 (0c0ef or 59059 - start.elf didn't change between those points)
start_335177.elf is from 05/09/2012 (79068)

Hopefully one end will be good and the other end bad.
Ok, they all partially booted (to the screen attached, which I believe is due to a kernel incompatability rather than a bug/fault) and the last one failed, as expected.

What have we learned?
Attachments
partboot.jpg
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dom
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Re: Pi won't boot after update.

Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:18 pm

alias_neo wrote: Ok, they all partially booted (to the screen attached, which I believe is due to a kernel incompatability rather than a bug/fault) and the last one failed, as expected.
What have we learned?
Yes, the kernel hang is fine. If you download a kernel.img from a similar time it will boot correctly.

What have we learned? Possibly something significant.
Commit 335177 has comment "Pick biggest pll frequency, and make first divisor 2 for PLLC."

So, if you are on stock frequencies, then core_freq=250 and PLL freq was 1GHz. The change means we set the PLL to 2GHz.
The reason for this is to allow more integer divisors, and so allow more choice with overclocking of v3f/h264/isp.

I believe the PLLs are specced up to 2.4GHz, but perhaps your board doesn't like the higher PLL.

I guess I make an option in a new firmware to limit the PLL frequency, and see if that is reliable for you.

alias_neo
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Re: Pi won't boot after update.

Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:28 pm

Interesting that the PLLs would be unreliable so far below their spec as you state. I wonder why certain boards are susceptible to this and not others. Perhaps a minor defect in my board, or slight differences in some component (manufacturer)?

I'll give your new version a go once you've got the option added and let you know how I get on.

I look forward to it.
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garyservin
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Re: Pi won't boot after update.

Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:39 pm

alias_neo wrote:Interesting that the PLLs would be unreliable so far below their spec as you state. I wonder why certain boards are susceptible to this and not others. Perhaps a minor defect in my board, or slight differences in some component (manufacturer)?

I'll give your new version a go once you've got the option added and let you know how I get on.

I look forward to it.
I got the exact same results alias_neo got, using the latest realese but with the old start.elf, it hangs when switching to the powersave governor.

It's weird because my board booted the latest raspbian with no problems until I updated the raspi-config.

I'll be waiting for the new version too!

Regards!

stephenholden
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Re: Pi won't boot after update.

Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:50 am

I bought two V2.0 boards and one exhibits the same issue as above - updating leads to a board that flashes the green led twice then hangs...the other works fine using all the same cables, P.S. and SD Card...

alias_neo
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Re: Pi won't boot after update.

Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:59 pm

stephenholden wrote:I bought two V2.0 boards and one exhibits the same issue as above - updating leads to a board that flashes the green led twice then hangs...the other works fine using all the same cables, P.S. and SD Card...
This is exactly the issue I'm seeing with my V1. I am currently working towards RMAing my current board with Farnell (whom I have linked to this forum thread).

As I have pointed out to them, if V2 boards are exhibiting the issue, it's likely more an issue of yield than board revision and I have no guarantee I'll receive a working board next time, which would be a shame.

Can we reasonably pin the issue on any specific situation? Where the device was manufactured? Which components and/or manufacturers it was built by? Samsung or Hynix memory module? Or is it simply a case that some are built less equal than others (yield/defects in the SoC)?
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dom
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Re: Pi won't boot after update.

Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:31 pm

You could try this build:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3669512/temp/start.elf

Basically top of tree with a new config option max_pll_freq. The default is 2400 (MHz) which should behave the same as latest start.elf.

If you set it to:
max_pll_freq=1000

then you should get the same pll as the older 0c0ef firmware.

alias_neo
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Re: Pi won't boot after update.

Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:36 pm

dom wrote:You could try this build:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3669512/temp/start.elf

Basically top of tree with a new config option max_pll_freq. The default is 2400 (MHz) which should behave the same as latest start.elf.

If you set it to:
max_pll_freq=1000

then you should get the same pll as the older 0c0ef firmware.
Cool, Thanks dom, I'll give it a go when I get home tonight and report back. I take it this can support other arbitrary values between the upper and lower end?

I'll be interested in seeing (assuming it does work) how high I can push it before it breaks.
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dom
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Re: Pi won't boot after update.

Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:49 pm

alias_neo wrote:Cool, Thanks dom, I'll give it a go when I get home tonight and report back. I take it this can support other arbitrary values between the upper and lower end?

I'll be interested in seeing (assuming it does work) how high I can push it before it breaks.
Yes, but the PLL is set to an even integer multiple of the core_freq, so there are not very many distinct choices (without changing the core_freq as well).
You could try:
max_pll_freq=1500

garyservin
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Re: Pi won't boot after update.

Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:53 pm

I've tried the latest raspbian image with the provided start.elf and it boots normally. The only problem i've found is no video on the hdmi. I had to set the hdmi_safe config option to 1 in order to get video.

Regards!

alias_neo
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Re: Pi won't boot after update.

Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:58 pm

garyservin wrote:I've tried the latest raspbian image with the provided start.elf and it boots normally. The only problem i've found is no video on the hdmi. I had to set the hdmi_safe config option to 1 in order to get video.

Regards!
This is using 1GHz PLL freq?
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alias_neo
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Re: Pi won't boot after update.

Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:16 pm

dom wrote:
alias_neo wrote:Cool, Thanks dom, I'll give it a go when I get home tonight and report back. I take it this can support other arbitrary values between the upper and lower end?

I'll be interested in seeing (assuming it does work) how high I can push it before it breaks.
Yes, but the PLL is set to an even integer multiple of the core_freq, so there are not very many distinct choices (without changing the core_freq as well).
You could try:
max_pll_freq=1500
No dice :( I tried this with 500, 1000 and 1500 for the max_pll_freq and still no boot, same two flashes of OK/ACT.

I went back to 2245c75 and that boots intermittently like it always did, so my Pi is still good.
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alias_neo
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Re: Pi won't boot after update.

Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:28 pm

Have we got any further options or ideas yet since it seems the PLL fix didn't solve the problem with my Pi?

Is it easier if I simply send my Pi to you dom for investigation and just buy another? Farnell is proving difficult to contact in order to organise my RMA and I put greater value in my time than the loss of the cost of an RPi.
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chris178
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Re: Pi won't boot after update.

Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:15 am

Hi Dom,

If you would like my RPi for further investigation, pse let me know...

BR, Chris

alias_neo
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Re: Pi won't boot after update.

Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:34 am

Quite a pleasant surprise for me today when I came to order my replacement and found it'll come with 512MB of RAM now. Hopefully this one will work, fingers crossed.
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Wessix
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Re: Pi won't boot after update.

Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:13 pm

HI there, seems my Pi wich is also Rev. 1 has that issue.
What can i do now? Contact farnell? or is there any fix until now?

sincerly

alias_neo
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Re: Pi won't boot after update.

Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:12 pm

I never managed to solve the problem completely as I RMA'd the device, my suggestion would be to contact Farnell and have them send you a new board, the new board should not suffer the issue (as my new board does not).
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Wessix
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Re: Pi won't boot after update.

Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:35 pm

thanks for the advice, finally i succeded in installing the new rasbian, didn't update yet, hope that a update won't break my system.

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