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paulwratt
Posts: 83
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latest update breaks themes (Nov 2016)

Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:29 pm

The rpi Appearance Settings app breaks current theme.

As soon as you click it (it opens) it set Window Theme to Pix and Widget Theme to Pix and sets new Global Hilite Color.

It breaks ALL themes by overriding File Hilite Color, Menu Bar Hilite Color with the same one used for Menu Hilite Color (the only one you can actually set in app).

I have never used the rpi Appearance Settings app, as it does not give the user any control over almost ALL of the "Appearance Settings".

I "fixed" the over-ride for /usr/share/raspi-ui-overides/applications/lxappearance.desktop.

On one of my Raspbian Jessie setup I use a modified Artwiz-boxed openbox-3 theme. Both of these now show padding where the Window Icon is (on the left), based on how many Window Action Buttons you have (on the right). This is wrong. (I will link to a screenshot already available on this forum if anyone want to see what it should look like).

This affects any Openbox theme that sets Window Title to Center:

Code: Select all

window.label.text.justify:center
You will only notice it if the Window Icon Background and Window Title Background are different colors (which Artwiz-boxed are).

I dont see why, in 2016, there are so many problems EVERY TIME the default user interface is upgraded. Its like the person putting this stuff together has never used Linux before, and therefore doesn't follow the rules, which have been well established just to eliminate these sorts of "mishaps".

I appreciate the effort (whoever) has been putting into creating a genuine and unique Raspbery Pi UI theme, I think it is needed and should be installed by default. But it is not for me (I have too many OS versions for them ALL to look EXACTLY the same) so its the first thing I change, adding lxappearance to menu.

Why should I have to put up with serious user interface breakages just because someone has not figured out how to do an IF-THEN-ELSE in the appropriate script file (or created one).

(skip if you dont like feelings)

Yes they are serious when you cant get access to the main menu. A lot of people also dont have a Linux/Mac system the can fix it on either. I am just lucky that I keep a folder on the (normally clean by default) desktop, so I can fix these issues, that and I always expand the virtual terminals to at least 5-6 (these are often turned off by default nowadays).

Imagine someone, young or old, who has a project on there rpi, and now they cant get access to it because:
1) they dont know enough about Linux/Unix to be able to find or change anything
2) the ssh.d is turned off by default
3) they dont have access to another computer to salvage
4) their only web browser (to get help) is now in-accessable
all because some forced them to do things their way without asking them or even telling you that things were "radically" going to change.

A lot of people use computers just to do things, not to understand how they work, or how to fix the underlying OS when it gets broken, or (more often than not) stops doing things the way they were 2 min ago. Alot of the time it takes many hours of painful scouring (reseach,find,edit,redo) before you find the right setting in the right file at the right place before you get the result you are looking for.

(unskip)

I bought my Pi to use in a vehicle cos its <12v. At 2 o'clock in the morning, hundreds of KM's away from there nearest town, I tend to get upset when my Pi breaks. I liked what the Pi could do (and could be), I now have 5 of them, and about a dozen OS's atm. I have at least one none Raspbian-based Linux with a web browser and a USB SD-Card reader available at all times, I bet not many other people do.

Paul

spl23
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Re: latest update breaks themes (Nov 2016)

Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:07 am

The pipanel app is designed for use with the dedicated PIXEL themes. There are various technical reasons why it can only work against known theme files. This is the way it has worked ever since it was first released nearly two years ago, and I have no intention of changing it. The setting of a unified look-and-feel in a Freedesktop environment is a mess, and this is the best way I have found to apply some degree of rationality to it with a single settings dialog which puts what most users might want to configure in one place.

If you don't want to us the PIXEL themes, don't use pipanel.

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paulwratt
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Re: latest update breaks themes (Nov 2016)

Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:10 am

My theme is a PiX (PIXEL) based theme, just with ArtWiz- window decorations instead of PiX window decorations.

If you try to un-install pipanel as you suggest, it wants to remove raspberrypi-ui-mods as well.

This might be ok, but raspberrypi-ui-mods is not just UI mods, containing Policy Kit, XDM and LXPanel configuration as well. Those are core to Raspbian.

Its PiPanel that causes the issues, not the PiX theme.

Would it not be kinder to give users option to be able to use RaspberryPi with different theme if they can figure out how to do that?

There is no reason why PiPanel cant have "Use PiX Theme" next to default, and NOT auto-force it.

The reason PiPanel has bug, is because of unclean setting applied either GTK+ theme or OpenBox theme that buggers the window title bar, and you will clearly see this if you change window icon background & set title center in PiX OpenBox theme.

I am not asking you to NOT use or set PIXEL themes as default on Pi. You are allowing bugs into your app, and this is not "the sufi way", nor should it be the Raspbian/RaspberryPi way.

Paul

spl23
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 375
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Re: latest update breaks themes (Nov 2016)

Sun Nov 20, 2016 7:03 pm

I don't think you really understand the point of PIXEL, or the pipanel application.

The way that look-and-feel is customised in LXDE is a mess. There are settings in numerous places which affect the overall appearance of the desktop - there is the GTK theme (2 and 3), the Openbox theme, the icon theme, options for PCManFM, lxsession options used to customise GTK etc. Some of these have dedicated GUI applications to control them - obconf, lxappearance etc. - others rely on the user modifying the configuration file directly.

For the new user - someone accustomed to a Windows or Mac environment - this is hugely confusing. Windows and MacOS both offer a limited set of customisations on top of a largely consistent environment; you can't reskin the entire UI, but you can make small tweaks. PIXEL and pipanel are intended to give this behaviour to LXDE - a largely fixed desktop environment, with a few user-defined tweaks, all of which can be accessed through one single application (pipanel). If you want to change the system font, it now changes consistently everywhere when set in pipanel, rather than needing to be changed in 3 or 4 different setting files. Ditto highlight colours, etc.

I do not want a beginner to Pi to even have to be aware of the concept of a desktop theme (which is why lxappearance is not installed by default). If you know about themes, you are not the target user of PIXEL or pipanel. If you want to use different themes, you should not be using pipanel, as it is the customisation tool for the fixed theme set I use to give PIXEL the look and feel that I have chosen, and it may well behave unpredictably with other themes. If you want to customise the desktop beyond the options in pipanel, by using different themes, do not use pipanel - it is not intended to support that behaviour.

To put this simply - pipanel is the customisation tool for the PIXEL desktop appearance. If you want to customise the desktop further, you should not be using pipanel. This is not buggy behaviour - it is completely intentional.

As for your claim that there is a bug in the window title bar behaviour - no, there isn't. There *is* a bug in the vanilla openbox behaviour when used with titles centred, in that it centres the title between the other title bar elements, rather than in the actual geometric centre of the title bar - this looks bad and is fixed in our version of openbox. This may have introduced strange effects if you are using alternative themes - I will investigate and see if anything can be changed to correct that.

If you don't want to use pipanel - and I suggest that in your case you shouldn't - there is no need to uninstall it; just remove it from the menu using the menu editor. Feel free to install lxappearance and obconf, and hack settings files to your heart's content. But - as I may have mentioned once or twice - that is not what pipanel is for...

gkreidl
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Re: latest update breaks themes (Nov 2016)

Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:21 am

@spI23;:
I won't start the discussion again which we had when you started with the UI mods. You know my point of view. But your desktop work really shouldn't break other things.

You should really fix this pipanel problem (of breaking themes). An easy way would be to check, if PIX theme is active. If it is not, send an alert, that this application (pipanel) can only be used with the PIX theme and close it cleanly without applying any changes.

There also seems to be a problem with the "patched" OpenBox version which I discovered recently. I'll run some more tests and send you a PM.
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spl23
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Re: latest update breaks themes (Nov 2016)

Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:20 am

Look, I really don't know how many more times I need to say this; I think I have been abundantly clear above, but just in case.

pipanel is to customise the PiX themes used to create the PIXEL desktop appearance.

pipanel is not intended for use if you are using other themes.

It does not "break" anything - it deliberately reverts the desktop appearance to a known state. If you don't want it to do this, don't run it.

This behaviour has been in our Raspbian release for nearly two years now; other than this thread, there have been no complaints about it.

End of discussion.

gkreidl
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Re: latest update breaks themes (Nov 2016)

Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:49 am

spl23 wrote:Look, I really don't know how many more times I need to say this; I think I have been abundantly clear above, but just in case.

pipanel is to customise the PiX themes used to create the PIXEL desktop appearance.

pipanel is not intended for use if you are using other themes.

It does not "break" anything - it deliberately reverts the desktop appearance to a known state. If you don't want it to do this, don't run it.

This behaviour has been in our Raspbian release for nearly two years now; other than this thread, there have been no complaints about it.

End of discussion.
I stopped arguing about it long time ago, because I'm a great admirer of the Foundation's work and that means for me that I also accept decisions which I don't find very wise or even completely wrong. And I'm not the only one who thinks this way.

But your last sentence really irritates me.
Last edited by gkreidl on Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Minimal Kiosk Browser (kweb)
Slim, fast webkit browser with support for audio+video+playlists+youtube+pdf+download
Optional fullscreen kiosk mode and command interface for embedded applications
Includes omxplayerGUI, an X front end for omxplayer

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paulwratt
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Re: latest update breaks themes (Nov 2016)

Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:20 am

I dont like getting into slanging match, it wastes valuable dev time, time that could be spent fixing the problem instead of allowing people to promote the idea "there is no bug".

This OpenBox issue has been non-exsistant in Raspian, Wheezy & Jessie, since I have been using my Pi's from 2012. It IS now pressent, that is fact.

Second Fact is while I was changing the Window Theme & Widget them originally, it ALSO did not show "bug", until AFTER I opened PiPanel. I see in PiPanel src that it restarts some services to do with themes. That means, before I rebooted there was old OpenBox (or window theme part) in memory, and after PiPanel is run there is new OpenBox (or themeing part) in memory.

This is what is termed in development world as "a regression".

as for:
It does not "break" anything - it deliberately reverts the desktop appearance to a known state. If you don't want it to do this, don't run it.
This is completely untrue, I have watched threads at various places (github & forum) that state otherwise.

Like I said on original Issues Post on github, I am willing to test the user-unfriendly-ness out of PiPanel. Because I understand the amount of effort required to develop anything in user-space, not to mention the difficulty of Themeing. The proof that it can be done properly, is simply by the Fact that there is already thousand of theme that already function nicely without killing other themes.

The main reason why your "end of discussion" is so blatantly wrong is because NOW (with latest update) it is not possible for "regular user" to un-install PiPanel as you suggested, due to the amount of Raspbian specific content of raspberrypi-user-mods

I dont want my Pi to stop being a Pi. I want it to be My Pi, NOT your Pi.

I have cloned PiPanel repo on github, for anyone interested, I will be looking into the issues I have with it, the code is fairly simple, one src file. Anyone willing to help out will be greatly appreciated, but I warn you, it will require the destruction of your desktop in some way, until the issues are sorted.

It will be a drop-in replacement for PiPanel, it will require (not depend on) "raspberrypi-user-mods", AND it will do ALL the things it is mean to do, WITHOUT interfering with user choices. I will also try and track down the package version where this apparent OpenBox regression happened (one of the truely positive things to come from this discussion).

that is a more honest "end of discussion" dont you think..

Paul

gkreidl
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Re: latest update breaks themes (Nov 2016)

Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:23 pm

The "OpenBox regressions" are bugs in the new pi_corners.patch. I've contacted spl23 via PM and sent him a test application, which demonstrates the bugs and hopefully he will fix them soon.
Minimal Kiosk Browser (kweb)
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Optional fullscreen kiosk mode and command interface for embedded applications
Includes omxplayerGUI, an X front end for omxplayer

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PeterO
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Re: latest update breaks themes (Nov 2016)

Sat Nov 26, 2016 12:57 pm

Could this be related to the font selection problems I'm seeing in my previously working GTK3 applications ?
Also the example text in a font selection dialog isn't working, and my code to select a mono spaced font in a text view doesn't work any more either.

PeterO
Discoverer of the PI2 XENON DEATH FLASH!
Interests: C,Python,PIC,Electronics,Ham Radio (G0DZB),1960s British Computers.
"The primary requirement (as we've always seen in your examples) is that the code is readable. " Dougie Lawson

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paulwratt
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Re: latest update breaks themes (Nov 2016)

Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:54 am

@peterO I believe openbox and others use GTK2/GTK+, although PiX does have a GTK3 theme, its in raspberrypi-user-mods.

for ur mono-spaced issue, check the bugtracker for GTK3, it may even be a regression also, or it could be the way you are referencing the mono-spaced fonts (I had a problem a couple of years ago with a browser app across platforms)

frotzen
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Re: latest update breaks themes (Nov 2016)

Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:47 am

Would this be the cause of getting black background in various windows like Main Menu Editor and Add/Remove Software, when selecting Crux theme after selecting Pix theme? If so, then I too experience this. There is no way to change it back, but I have gotten some palette colors to change by playing with Theme and Appearance Settings with the Appearance Settings window open. Usually, though, logging off and back on causes it to revert to PiX theme and colors.

gkreidl
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Re: latest update breaks themes (Nov 2016)

Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:21 am

frotzen wrote:Would this be the cause of getting black background in various windows like Main Menu Editor and Add/Remove Software, when selecting Crux theme after selecting Pix theme? If so, then I too experience this. There is no way to change it back, but I have gotten some palette colors to change by playing with Theme and Appearance Settings with the Appearance Settings window open. Usually, though, logging off and back on causes it to revert to PiX theme and colors.
No, some themes (Clearlooks, Crux) are broken and produce this result in GTK+3 applications. This started with the introduction of epiphany and all the patches required for it.
Minimal Kiosk Browser (kweb)
Slim, fast webkit browser with support for audio+video+playlists+youtube+pdf+download
Optional fullscreen kiosk mode and command interface for embedded applications
Includes omxplayerGUI, an X front end for omxplayer

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