SheepWillPrevail
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Raspberry Pi 3 thermal/SD card woes

Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:27 pm

Hi. I have a Raspberry Pi 3 and an official Raspberry Pi 3 case. I'm using a Samsung Evo SD card along with it and a 2 amp PSU.

I'm trying to compile OpenWrt on it, but after a while it will either hang with a yellow square in the top right or the access to the SD card will fail with a lot of errors in dmesg after which the file system will be inaccessible.

I read the yellow square means it is throttling due to thermal issues. What I don't get is why it would hang after that. That means the throttling is ineffective. Also, losing access to the SD card worries me. It seems to me the board is defective.

Does anybody else have these issues?

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MarkHaysHarris777
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Re: Raspberry Pi 3 thermal/SD card woes

Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:39 pm

SheepWillPrevail wrote: I have a Raspberry Pi 3 and an official Raspberry Pi 3 case. I'm using a Samsung Evo SD card along with it and a 2 amp PSU.
You will need a 2.5 amp PSU; the one @ MCM Element 14 (with the Raspberry embossed on it, with all the international plugs) is fabulous... has a great two wire cord; very nice.

... a 2 amp supply is insufficient. <sorry>


edit: PS start over... get a new noobs card (16 Gb or more) and start clean...
marcus
:ugeek:

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Rive
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Re: Raspberry Pi 3 thermal/SD card woes

Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:46 pm

Hi. I have a Raspberry Pi 3 and an official Raspberry Pi 3 case. I'm using a Samsung Evo SD card along with it and a 2 amp PSU.
I have the same exact setup as you and the same sdcard.

It has been my experience doing stress and thermal /cooling tests that throttling is ineffective if the temp climbs too fast, and/or there is an insufficient voltage issue.


Get a proper power supply, and get a heatsink, and get a fan. see: viewtopic.php?p=952371#p952371
DNPNWO

SheepWillPrevail
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Re: Raspberry Pi 3 thermal/SD card woes

Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:55 pm

MarkHaysHarris777 wrote:You will need a 2.5 amp PSU... a 2 amp supply is insufficient. <sorry>
edit: PS start over... get a new noobs card (16 Gb or more) and start clean...
The RPI 3 uses up to 800 mA and there are no attached USB devices except for keyboard and a mouse. Starting over didn't help, I'm using the latest Raspbian with the 4.4 kernel through rpi-update.
Rive wrote:it has been my experience doing stress and thermal /cooling tests that throttling is ineffective if the temp climbs too fast, and/or there is an insufficient voltage issue.
Heatsink has been ordered, so lets hope it'll help. If it was a voltage issue I'd expect the rainbow indicator and the blinking red light.

It seems to me the RPI 3 is badly designed.

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Rive
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Re: Raspberry Pi 3 thermal/SD card woes

Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:05 pm

SheepWillPrevail wrote:
MarkHaysHarris777 wrote:You will need a 2.5 amp PSU... a 2 amp supply is insufficient. <sorry>
edit: PS start over... get a new noobs card (16 Gb or more) and start clean...
The RPI 3 uses up to 800 mA and there are no attached USB devices except for keyboard and a mouse. Starting over didn't help, I'm using the latest Raspbian with the 4.4 kernel through rpi-update.
Rive wrote: If it was a voltage issue I'd expect the rainbow indicator and the blinking red light.

It seems to me the RPI 3 is badly designed.

Nope. It has been my experience that it will just crash if the Pi3 is being stressed, overheats and undervolts. The more power hungry the application, the more voltage it wants, and the hotter the pi3 gets. The voltage indicator only shows if the Pi3 detects voltage below 4.6V (or thereabouts). If you look at the link, you will see why this issue occurs. The Pi3 has been pushed to the edge of it's manufacturing limitations.
Last edited by Rive on Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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SheepWillPrevail
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Re: Raspberry Pi 3 thermal/SD card woes

Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:15 pm

Rive wrote:The Pi3 has been pushed to the edge of it's manufacturing limitations.
I'd say over the edge. The stock configuration can't handle compiling stuff on one core.

But thanks for the input, I've ordered both the official PSU and the official heatsink. If it still crashes after that I'm getting the board replaced.

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Rive
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Re: Raspberry Pi 3 thermal/SD card woes

Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:19 pm

SheepWillPrevail wrote:
Rive wrote:The Pi3 has been pushed to the edge of it's manufacturing limitations.
I'd say over the edge. The stock configuration can't handle compiling stuff on one core.

But thanks for the input, I've ordered both the official PSU and the official heatsink. If it still crashes after that I'm getting the board replaced.
Good luck. Keep in mind if you cant remove the heat off the heatsink, then the heatsink is useless.

I did a test on it today (official pi3 case with just a heatsink, and it overheats and tries to throttle like crazy...and this is with the official case open on top and on the side). Imagine what happens with the case closed up (essentially it will be like having no heatsink at all).

see: viewtopic.php?p=963540#p963540
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SheepWillPrevail
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Re: Raspberry Pi 3 thermal/SD card woes

Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:27 pm

Rive wrote:I did a test on it today (official pi3 case with just a heatsink, and it overheats and tries to throttle like crazy...and this is with the official case open on top and on the side). Imagine what happens with the case closed up.
Okay, that makes it official the RPI 3 is badly designed with little to no verification before it was made available. I think it's crazy that one would have to go to such extreme lengths to just have it run stable. I'm not planning on adding a fan and keeping the case open.

Time to look into a more serious ARM SBC. A shame really, the RPI 3 with the new VC IV drivers had great promise.

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Rive
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Re: Raspberry Pi 3 thermal/SD card woes

Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:32 pm

SheepWillPrevail wrote:
Rive wrote:I did a test on it today (official pi3 case with just a heatsink, and it overheats and tries to throttle like crazy...and this is with the official case open on top and on the side). Imagine what happens with the case closed up.
Okay, that makes it official the RPI 3 is badly designed with little to no verification before it was made available. I think it's crazy that one would have to go to such extreme lengths to just have it run stable. I'm not planning on adding a fan and keeping the case open.

Time to look into a more serious ARM SBC. A shame really, the RPI 3 with the new VC IV drivers had great promise.
Also, consider that I am deliberately trying to heat up the Pi3...with synthetic Neon pulling heavy voltage requirements. It is unlikely that a pi3 will ever see that kind of workload or heat in real life.
DNPNWO

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ab1jx
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Re: Raspberry Pi 3 thermal/SD card woes

Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:35 pm

Has anybody tried slowing it down 10% or so? In config.txt (on a B anyway), you can overclock it, what if you set it slower? OpenBSD has an option apm -C (cool running) or -A at the command line, mine will change from 3193 MHz to 383. Androids throttle CPU speed a lot to save battery. My new Pi 3B was just shipped today, now I'm worried.

Sleep Mode zZ
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Re: Raspberry Pi 3 thermal/SD card woes

Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:45 pm

SheepWillPrevail wrote:
Rive wrote:I did a test on it today (official pi3 case with just a heatsink, and it overheats and tries to throttle like crazy...and this is with the official case open on top and on the side). Imagine what happens with the case closed up.
Okay, that makes it official the RPI 3 is badly designed with little to no verification before it was made available. I think it's crazy that one would have to go to such extreme lengths to just have it run stable. I'm not planning on adding a fan and keeping the case open.

Time to look into a more serious ARM SBC. A shame really, the RPI 3 with the new VC IV drivers had great promise.
I hope you noted that Rive's Pi is overclocked with extra voltage added. For some reason Rive does not mention that and gives often readers the impression that his problems of keeping his Pi cool enough without a fan is a common problem. It is not. A heat sink should be enough.

That said, there seems to be is a real stability problem with some Pi 3s under stressful loads. Get a heatsink and reduce clockspeed if necessary. Or return the board.

SheepWillPrevail
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Re: Raspberry Pi 3 thermal/SD card woes

Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:50 pm

Sleep Mode zZ wrote:I hope you noted that Rive's Pi is overclocked with extra voltage added.
That said, there seems to be is a real stability problem with some Pi 3s under stressful loads. Get a heatsink and reduce clockspeed if necessary. Or return the board.
I did not notice the overclock and overvolt, thank you for pointing that out. I just ordered the official PSU and heatsink, if that doesn't help (with the case closed) I consider the board defective.

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Rive
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Re: Raspberry Pi 3 thermal/SD card woes

Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:00 pm

ab1jx wrote:Has anybody tried slowing it down 10% or so? In config.txt (on a B anyway), you can overclock it, what if you set it slower? OpenBSD has an option apm -C (cool running) or -A at the command line, mine will change from 3193 MHz to 383. Androids throttle CPU speed a lot to save battery. My new Pi 3B was just shipped today, now I'm worried.
Set the governor to powersave, or conservative (default is ondemand).
for how to change the governor, see: viewtopic.php?p=937859#p937859

(Simply change the governor from "ondemand" to either "powersave" or "conservative" if following the directions in the supplied url link)

That would help. Also, the sdram is technically overclocked at default 450 MHz (ddr2 900), it is actually ddr2 800.

You can restore it's normal freq in /boot/config.txt (find "sdram_freq="), and change to:

Code: Select all

sdram_freq=400

Governor explained:

Conservative
The CPUfreq governor "conservative", much like the "ondemand"
governor, sets the CPU depending on the current usage. It differs in
behaviour in that it gracefully increases and decreases the CPU speed
rather than jumping to max speed the moment there is any load on the
CPU. This behaviour more suitable in a battery powered environment.
The governor is tweaked in the same manner as the "ondemand" governor
through sysfs with the addition of....
Powersave
The CPUfreq governor "powersave" sets the CPU statically to the
lowest frequency within the borders of scaling_min_freq and
scaling_max_freq.
DNPNWO

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