Pi Zero Will not boot, will not hold micro sD card in

[r.c.carroll]

I purchased a Pi Zero on 11/26, when they became available. I thought fortunately, my MicroCenter still had them listed as in stock. I purchased one, but found the Pi Zero will not hold the micro sD card in place. It simply never clicks into the retention phase, and will not boot. I tried to return it to MicroCenter in Westmont where I purchased it, they said, no returns, on computer motherboards we might offer and exchange for a refurb, but we don't have any Pi Zeros anyway, refurb or new. Their policy is to not refund money for boards. They suggested talking to the manufacturer. RaspberryPi.org listened, but referred me back to Micro Center, who again refused to do anything. Micro Center certainly had a poor attitude, one of their techs told me, "It's a $5 part, what do you expect?" Not very funny, I expected $5 worth of value, or more, which is why I took my money and spent it at their store. So I am out the $5 plus driving to MicroCenter, and neither Micro Center nor Raspberry Pi want to do anything. Anybody need a demo board for outreach talks or school promos?

[texy]

Hi and welcome to the forum.
One thing to note is that the sd card socket on the Zero is different to the other Pi models in that it doesn't 'click' when the SD card is fitted - it is held just by friction.
Are you saying that the SD card does not fit, or simply falls out?
If we put that issue to one side for the moment, lets look at why your Zero isn't booting - what are the symptons? Any activity on the monitor, if one is connected, or the Zero LED's ?
How did you write the image of the SD card, or is a purchased pre-programmed type?

Texy

[r.c.carroll]

The sD card is loose, and not held in well. While it hasn't fallen out yet, it likely will if the Pi Zero in used in a motion environment (like a wearable)

I have it hooked to a HDMI monitor through an HDMI - mini HDMI cable. I have applied 5 V 1000 milliAmp power source to the USB micro port labelled PWR, not the one labelled USB. No lights come on with any of my cards in the sD slot. I have tried a purchased 1.5 NOOBS card, and my own NOOBS card, and a PiDora card, a Jessie card, and a OpenELEC card. I have made my own cards in Linux, and am quite familiar with the dd command. I have worked in Linux for about 15 years. This board shows no signs of booting at all, the HDMI monitor does NOT indicate a signal, even though connected. I tested the monitor with a different Pi, and it works perfectly well (it has two HDMI inputs, so I checked to make sure the plug I was using was active.) Micro Center will not take the Pi Zero back, I have tried three times physically and once by phone. Micro Center refers me to the maker, Raspberry Pi (Trading) LTD. The Trading company has a registered address at: Mount Pleasant House, Mount Pleasant, Cambridge, England CB3 0RN. They have not responded to either of two letters. The Raspberry Pi Foundation has no interest in helping either. (per nicola at raspberrypi.org) They referred me to the selling dealer. Micro Center has told me twice that I should just write it off, it's only $5. It WAS my $5, but I expect to get $5 in value (or more) or I would not have spent my money.

[drgeoff]

1. Have you verified that the purchased NOOBS card really contains v1.5.0?

2. Have you actually used the NOOBS and Raspbian versions currently at raspberrypi.org/downloads?

Older versions that work fine on your other RPi(s) may not work on a Zero.

3. A Zero can also be powered via the other micro-USB socket. Try that just in case the power one is faulty.

4. If you want to exercise your legal rights as a consumer, first find out what they are. They do vary from place to place.

[r.c.carroll]

After not booting on the Pi Zero, i tried the 1.5 NOOBS card on a B+ 2 and it worked fine. None of the cards I made even got a flicker of light from the Zero.

I tried the other port, just now, no lights on there either.

All cards, except one Pidora were created within the last two months, all from current versions downloaded that day.

As to my legal rights as a consumer in Illinois, my guess is that the statement of Micro Center that they do not refund money on motherboards is as close as I can get to what my legal rights are. I accepted that as I bought the Pi Zero. Micro Center won't give me a refurbished mother board, or a different motherboard as they do not have one. In addition, even thought I complained within the first 30 days, now six weeks have passed. I suspect that since I essentially agreed to the Micro Center terms during the purchase, I don't have any legal recourse against them. I don't know if I have any legal recourse against Raspberry Pi Trading, LTD, especially since they are NOT answering mail. I suspect the only way I have to get any satisfaction is to write every consumer advocate I can find, and every computer blog I can find and tell my story. Perhaps if a few folks don't spend $5 at Raspberry Pi, well . . . O, heck, who am I kidding, they don't care.

I can tell you that I am on the STEM committee of our local Boy Scout council, and will suggest that we do not support companies who don't support their users.

[mahjongg]

All cards, except one Pidora were created within the last two months, all from current versions downloaded that day.

two months ago is too long, as the Zero was launched just over a month ago! A Zero works only with versions of NOOBS (which I recommend using instead of using DD to burn images) released AFTER the launch of the Zero which is obvious if you know that this version of the PI uses a new brand of RAM (package on Package chip) so it needs new boot packages, just as previous incarnations that used a new RAM type also need new software, because the PI has no setup/BIOS code built in, to catch the differences.
The Zero will not even light its single "action" LED until it sees the correct boot files on the sd-card.
Also no PI will display any video until the GPU files are loaded.
Please read the boot problem sticky, it explains these facts, how a PI boots, and all the common problems that prohibit booting. It has a special section for the Zero.
The sd card holder is friction hold only, its what you get when you have to save every cent to get the price to this level, but the card holder works fine. But if you use the Zero in an environment that is unsuitable for it, then you have to take appropriate measures, like using cello-tape to keep the sd-card in place.

[r.c.carroll]

Sorry for your attitude, but I won't let it distract me. I used NOOBS 1.5, downloaded on Monday Nov. 30 2015. I purchased the Zero on 11/26/15. Most of the other versions for the cards were downloaded at the the same time. I'm sorry if I mislead you, but November 30th is within the last two months. I made sure I got the version 1.5 of NOOBS since my most recent download was 1.3 and I had a 1.2 file also.

The NOOBS file I used before, and again today is 1.5.0. It has a release date of 11-21-15. I don't see where this version of NOOBS is wrong for the Pi Zero. It was the most recent when I downloaded it 11/30/15, and it still is the most recent version when I redownloaded it again today.

I have used dd as I am familiar with it, and need to use it for other distros. Are you saying there is something wrong with dd? How else could I get Jesse or OpenELEC or others to write to a card and leave maximum space for video or audio files? I like NOOBS for some things, I like dedicated cards with max. room for some things.

As to "no PI will display any video until the GPU files are loaded." that's a curious statement. Both my RPi B and my RPi 2 will display a color panel (without any info) when first turned on, followed by a linux line by line display of the boot process. Maybe you weren't watching yours. You are welcome to watch mine. But, my Zero does not show anything.

You say if I use the Zero in "an environment that is unsuitable for it," but carrying the Pi Zero around seems like a natural for it's size. I had no idea that carrying around a Zero would be considered an unsuitable environment. I work a lot with Scouts, and consider the RPi to be a nice way to augment the program.

I tried a current download of NOOBS again, but it still doesn't work. You seem to be telling me that I am doing this all wrong, without giving really good suggestions as to how to solve the unbootable Pi problem. I tried a new download, I tried tapeing the card in place, but it still doesn't boot. Why don't you simply send me the money I have invested it and postage, and I'll gladly send it to you. You seem to know how to make it work, where I don't.

Likely the most troubling, I purchased this 11/26/15, which is 6-1/2 weeks ago, and still don't have an answer as to how to proceed. The store flatly refuses to help, the foundation also refuses, the Trading company won't answer questions, so I come to the forums here seeking help. I read your answer and don't see where it helps me at all. I have already tried what you asked, I it tried again, and it still doesn't work. Insanity is defined as trying things over again the same way, and hoping for a different result.

[mahjongg]

I will repeat it, "no PI will display any video until it has booted its GPU drivers". The examples you mentioned did boot these files.

read the sticky, is all I will say it contains ALL available info on booting problems.
if that doesn't help rinse and repeat, but in the end, when you give up, the only sane thing is to throw the zero away..... 5$ is not worth frustrating over.
and yes, chances are 99 to 1 that you are doing something wrong, sorry.
For example did you thoroughly empty a used sd-card from all partitions on it, formatted to a single FAT32 partition, that is, did you full do a full format, with the sd-card associations formatter according to the the instructions in the sticky? trying to use any sd-card that is not fully emptied, and restored to factory state may not work.

the PI was never a "plug it in and it works" consumer article, the zero even more so. It should not be your first PI.

[klricks]

..............
....
You say if I use the Zero in "an environment that is unsuitable for it," but carrying the Pi Zero around seems like a natural for it's size. I had no idea that carrying around a Zero would be considered an unsuitable environment. I work a lot with Scouts, and consider the RPi to be a nice way to augment the program.
.....
......

IMO carrying or handling the RPi or any other type of circuit card with exposed circuitry AND not taking ESD (anti static) precautions would be a destructive or unsuitable environment.

[jamesh]

Likely the most troubling, I purchased this 11/26/15, which is 6-1/2 weeks ago, and still don't have an answer as to how to proceed. The store flatly refuses to help, the foundation also refuses, the Trading company won't answer questions, so I come to the forums here seeking help. I read your answer and don't see where it helps me at all. I have already tried what you asked, I it tried again, and it still doesn't work. Insanity is defined as trying things over again the same way, and hoping for a different result.

The first point of call is the Microcentre - take it to them, and see if they can get it to boot. If they cannot, it's broken, so you should be refunded. Surely Illinois has regulations to mean if you are sold a broken device you are refunded?

The Foundation technical support is here, so in effect the help you are getting here (and so far pretty comprehensive) means they are not ignoring you. The boot sticky is the first point of call, but also, if you have pi2 uSD card working in a Pi2, do an update on it to get the latest bootcode, then try in the Zero, if still not working, I'd suggest it's broken.

[hippy]

if that doesn't help the only sane thing is to throw the zero away..... 5$ is not worth frustrating over.
and yes, chances are 99 to 1 that you are doing something wrong, sorry.

It's that kind of attitude which has people like the OP getting rather frustrated to say the least.

If I get a product which has a manufacturing fault I expect it to be replaced or at least my money refunded. There is nothing unreasonable in that.

[jamesh]

if that doesn't help the only sane thing is to throw the zero away..... 5$ is not worth frustrating over.
and yes, chances are 99 to 1 that you are doing something wrong, sorry.

It's that kind of attitude which has people like the OP getting rather frustrated to say the least.

If I get a product which has a manufacturing fault I expect it to be replaced or at least my money refunded. There is nothing unreasonable in that.

And the refund can only come from the person he purchased it from. Microcentre. As I said in the previous post, go to Microcentre, ask them to get it working, if they fail, ask for money back.

And here is a fun fact, of all Zero's returned as faulty, how many do you think were actually faulty?

The name of the board should give a clue...

Not only that but ALL Zero's are tested and working when they leave the factory.

[mahjongg]

if that doesn't help the only sane thing is to throw the zero away..... 5$ is not worth frustrating over.
and yes, chances are 99 to 1 that you are doing something wrong, sorry.

It's that kind of attitude which has people like the OP getting rather frustrated to say the least.

If I get a product which has a manufacturing fault I expect it to be replaced or at least my money refunded. There is nothing unreasonable in that.

Agreed, but if the place where you bought it refuses to refund you, what do you expect me to do about it ? Why is he complaining here, I'm willing to help him with booting, but with some people no amount of assistance seems to help.

[gregeric]

You can use the Zero's USB boot capability as a diagnostic for dead or not, before going on to investigate SD card issues:

Take your bare naked Zero, no cables or cards in any slot or socket. Take a normal micro-USB to USB-A cable (the most common type) & connect it to your PC, plugging the micro-USB into the Pi's data USB nearest the HDMI, not the PWR_IN. If the Zero is alive, within a few seconds your Windows PC will go chime for the presence of new hardware & you should see "BCM2708 Boot" in Device Manager. On linux, a similar message from dmesg. If you see that, so far so good, you know the Zero's not dead.

Now you can go on to investigate SD issues, or return the dead Zero.

[fruitoftheloom]

You can use the Zero's USB boot capability as a diagnostic for dead or not, before going on to investigate SD card issues:

Take your bare naked Zero, no cables or cards in any slot or socket. Take a normal micro-USB to USB-A cable (the most common type) & connect it to your PC, plugging the micro-USB into the Pi's data USB nearest the HDMI, not the PWR_IN. If the Zero is alive, within a few seconds your Windows PC will go chime for the presence of new hardware & you should see "BCM2708 Boot" in Device Manager. On linux, a similar message from dmesg. If you see that, so far so good, you know the Zero's not dead.

Now you can go on to investigate SD issues, or return the dead Zero.

Learn something new everyday here

Linux dmesg:

Code: Select all

[   48.656033] usb 2-2: new full-speed USB device number 2 using uhci_hcd
[   48.824749] usb 2-2: New USB device found, idVendor=0a5c, idProduct=2763
[   48.824755] usb 2-2: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=0
[   48.824759] usb 2-2: Product: BCM2708 Boot
[   48.824762] usb 2-2: Manufacturer: Broadcom

[Massi]

If I get a product which has a manufacturing fault I expect it to be replaced or at least my money refunded. There is nothing unreasonable in that.

To be honest, it's not a matter of what you expect, it's a matter of what law's provisions are.

In europe the customer is very (very) protected regarding warranty.
In europe would be unacceptable for a seller to say "go to the producer" in the first days from the selling. But i honestly do not know anything about america's customers protection law

then for sure for a 5 bucks piece of hardware, you can't expect a lot of committment from the seller, but that's another story

The only "unreasonable" part is that in your expectation there is not a "by who" part. I mean, you can protect your rights if you know what they are. You can't say "i want this refunded by someone", you can say "i want this refounded by you because law guarantee this to me"

I want to add that i admire mahjongg's patience

[QuietZone]

There's two bits of funny here:

1. The OP wants to get rid of his Pi0. I'm sure there are hoards of people who'd be willing to buy it from him at a reasonable markup. If he put it on sale here for $6 + reasonable shipping, it'd be gone in about 3 seconds. (I know that nitpickers will find a way to nitpick, but you know that's the real underlying here)
2. Regarding getting one's money back: It is always easier said than done. FWIW, suppose I bought a gallon of milk, drank it all, and then complained that it wasn't working anymore and I wanted my money back... (This is not entirely facetious - the point is that the Pi0 is basically a consumable now)

[jamesh]

Can we keep it on topic please.

[jgreen71]

r.c., just like QZ said, I'll buy it from you. I sent a PM. Let me know.

[r.c.carroll]

I no longer own the Pi 0. Actually the moderator was close to right, I should just discard it, and stop trying to fix a $5 computer. Unfortunately, I don't throw computer boards in the trash, they go electronic recyclers due to the way they make PCBs. That meant, I would have to take it somewhere to get rid of it. We found a nice, private solution that all parties are happy with.

[jamesh]

I no longer own the Pi 0. Actually the moderator was close to right, I should just discard it, and stop trying to fix a $5 computer. Unfortunately, I don't throw computer boards in the trash, they go electronic recyclers due to the way they make PCBs. That meant, I would have to take it somewhere to get rid of it. We found a nice, private solution that all parties are happy with.

DId the private solution get it working?

[r.c.carroll]

No, it did not get it working. I did try testing to see if dmesg reported that my computer saw it mounted. I tried to tape the micro sD card in, and dmesg was unable to see the device. Trying two rubber bands, across the card in two directions, along with a piece of cardboard to concentrate the force of the press on the micro sD card holder did allow the device to register with my system, but not boot. Brand new cards should not need two rubber bands and creatively cut card board to boot, much less to run reliably.

[gregeric]

You have to have *no* SD card in the slot for the Zero to attempt USB boot & appear in dmesg...

[r.c.carroll]

Well, I guess what my grandson told me was not correct.

[QuietZone]

Well, I guess what my grandson told me was not correct.

It rarely is.

Kids these days...