rookers
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Pizero - 4 hubs tried, nothing works

Sat Jan 02, 2016 12:56 pm

Hi - I got a Pizero. I have tired both Noobs and Jessie and both work just fine.
The problem is I cannot get any of the 4 USB hubs I tried to work, which means I have only been able to plug in one USB device at a time. Even a keyboard or mouse that works fine when plugged in directly, will not work when plugged into the hub.

I tried:
1 - a super cheap non power 4-port hub
2 - a better quality Typhoon non-powered 4-port hub
3 - a very good quality EasyAcc 7-port powered usb hub
4 - a brand new micro 2-port + mini OTG power input usb hub.

All these pubs work fine on my pc.
The mouse, keyboard, wireless mouse/keyboard combo and wifi 802.11n adaptor all work fine on the pc directly or through any hub.
The mouse, keyboard, wireless mouse/keyboard combo work find when plugged in directly to the Pizero.
But when I introduce any hub with any device - nothing happens. The Pi just boots to desktop and and can do nothing.

I have tried powering by mains, by PC via usb, by battery - nothing works.
I have seen a few videos on youtube of people plugging USB stuff in to the Pizero and they don't seem to be doing anything different.

Am I missing something ? I have sort of some to the end of any ideas and have already spent about £50 trying to get hardware that will work.

Can anyone help ?
Thanks
jez

zrsuch
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Re: Pizero - 4 hubs tried, nothing works

Sat Jan 02, 2016 6:10 pm

I've had the same problem with a powered EasyAcc 7 port hub. Esynic wireless keyboard/mouse works fine when connected directly but not when in the USB hub.

Wondering if something to do with the hub back powering the pi0? Although have had the same issue when hub is not plugged into the mains (assuming it is underpowered in this situation).

Any help would be appreciated, first time using a pi so sure it's something easy I'm not doing properly.

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mikronauts
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Re: Pizero - 4 hubs tried, nothing works

Sat Jan 02, 2016 8:26 pm

- USB 3.0 hubs have issues with a LOT of keyboards/mice, so use USB 2.0 hubs with the Pi Zero

- I found that I can use a powered 9 port Orico hub great with my Pi Zero, but it only works if I do not hook up the power input on the Pi Zero, but let it back-power from the USB cable to the hub

See my Pi Zero review for a bit more info on this:

http://www.mikronauts.com/raspberry-pi/ ... ro-review/
http://Mikronauts.com - home of EZasPi, RoboPi, Pi Rtc Dio and Pi Jumper @Mikronauts on Twitter
Advanced Robotics, I/O expansion and prototyping boards for the Raspberry Pi

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Pizero - 4 hubs tried, nothing works

Sat Jan 02, 2016 8:42 pm

Found that a "Belkin F5U234 USB 2.0 4-Port Hub - 2.6A PSU" works for me and powers the RPi0 through the Power Port..
Thinking outside the box is better than burying your head in the sand...

Mikemo
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Re: Pizero - 4 hubs tried, nothing works

Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:15 pm

Same problem here. Four hubs tried, none work. All are usb2. Glad to hear that I'm not the only one, but I'm unsure where to go from here.

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Pizero - 4 hubs tried, nothing works

Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:30 am

Interesting...first hub I used (ultra cheap--$3.70, Monoprice--and it back powers, whether you want it to or not) worked just fine as a powered hub with keyboard (Logitech K120), mouse (some $4.50 one from Monoprice), WiFi dongle (Monoprice) or Ethernet adapter (Monoprice, $11). PSU for the hub is from MCM and is fairly expensive (~$17).

Mikemo
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Re: Pizero - 4 hubs tried, nothing works

Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:00 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:Interesting...first hub I used (ultra cheap--$3.70, Monoprice--and it back powers, whether you want it to or not) worked just fine as a powered hub with keyboard (Logitech K120), mouse (some $4.50 one from Monoprice), WiFi dongle (Monoprice) or Ethernet adapter (Monoprice, $11). PSU for the hub is from MCM and is fairly expensive (~$17).
Thanks for the reply. Can you point me to the hub you bought (if it's still available on Monoprice)? What version of OS are you running on your Pi Zero?

Thanks again!
Mike M.

aawood
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Re: Pizero - 4 hubs tried, nothing works

Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:27 pm

I'm in much the same place; I have a WiFi dongle and a wireless keyboard/trackpad dongle. Either work when connected directly, but when both are connected by a hub, the WiFi works but the keyboard/mouse doesn't. (That said, the LED on the keyboard dongle lights up as I push keys, so it's seems to be working, just not being identified).

I don't really want to go the powered USB route, as I'm trying to make a portable system with these, and being tethered to a plug socket isn't really the way forwards. Are there any solutions here for using multiple things on-the-go, perhaps a chargeable powered USB hub? Is there a way to check that power really is the issue? If it is, what's the likely result if I just run the data pins for the keyboard dongle through the hub, but wire the power pins directly to the RPi's USB power rail in parallel, grabbing the full flow instead of the reduced power through the hub... Fry everything, solve nothing, fix it all, burn my house down? Is my only solution one of the larger RPis? (I never thought the time would come I'd think of the classic Raspberry Pi form as *big*...)

If push comes to shove, I'll just drop wi-fi... it's a nicety rather than a necessity for the project.

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FTrevorGowen
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Re: Pizero - 4 hubs tried, nothing works

Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:56 pm

aawood wrote:I'm in much the same place; I have a WiFi dongle and a wireless keyboard/trackpad dongle. Either work when connected directly, but when both are connected by a hub, the WiFi works but the keyboard/mouse doesn't. (That said, the LED on the keyboard dongle lights up as I push keys, so it's seems to be working, just not being identified).

I don't really want to go the powered USB route, as I'm trying to make a portable system with these, and being tethered to a plug socket isn't really the way forwards. Are there any solutions here for using multiple things on-the-go, perhaps a chargeable powered USB hub? Is there a way to check that power really is the issue? If it is, what's the likely result if I just run the data pins for the keyboard dongle through the hub, but wire the power pins directly to the RPi's USB power rail in parallel, grabbing the full flow instead of the reduced power through the hub... Fry everything, solve nothing, fix it all, burn my house down? Is my only solution one of the larger RPis? (I never thought the time would come I'd think of the classic Raspberry Pi form as *big*...)

If push comes to shove, I'll just drop wi-fi... it's a nicety rather than a necessity for the project.
FWIW, this works (but may not be your preferred "solution"):
Edit: link updated:
http://www.cpmspectrepi.webspace.virgin ... ased_Setup
https://www.cpmspectrepi.uk/raspberry_p ... ased_Setup
Trev.
Still running Raspbian Jessie or Stretch on some older Pi's (an A, B1, 2xB2, B+, P2B, 3xP0, P0W, 2xP3A+, P3B+, P3B, B+, and a A+) but Buster on the P4B's. See: https://www.cpmspectrepi.uk/raspberry_pi/raspiidx.htm

Mikemo
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Re: Pizero - 4 hubs tried, nothing works

Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:46 pm

I ordered a Belkin USB hub from Ebay to try one more. I'll go through this again when it arrives. For this test I'm using an EasyAcc 2.0 OTG Hub with Card Reader from amazon http://amzn.com/B00QI6QKCW

I hooked up a serial terminal so I could execute commands without the USB keyboard connected to the Pi Zero. With nothing connected, I see this:

Code: Select all

pi@raspberrypi:/var/log$ lsusb -t
/:  Bus 01.Port 1: Dev 1, Class=root_hub, Driver=dwc_otg/1p, 480M
Connecting the hub only, with no devices connected to it:

Code: Select all

pi@raspberrypi:/var/log$ lsusb -t
/:  Bus 01.Port 1: Dev 1, Class=root_hub, Driver=dwc_otg/1p, 480M
    |__ Port 1: Dev 2, If 0, Class=Hub, Driver=hub/4p, 480M
        |__ Port 1: Dev 3, If 0, Class=Mass Storage, Driver=usb-storage, 480M
Plug in the USB keyboard (Logitech wireless kbd/mouse combo):

Code: Select all

pi@raspberrypi:/var/log$ lsusb -t
/:  Bus 01.Port 1: Dev 1, Class=root_hub, Driver=dwc_otg/1p, 480M
    |__ Port 1: Dev 2, If 0, Class=Hub, Driver=hub/4p, 480M
        |__ Port 1: Dev 3, If 0, Class=Mass Storage, Driver=usb-storage, 480M
What was interesting was the entries in kernel.log after plugging in the keyboard. It appears to try multiple times to use it, but eventually fails:

Code: Select all

Nov 22 04:52:50 raspberrypi kernel: [  404.047056] usb 1-1.2: new full-speed USB device number 4 using dwc_otg
Nov 22 04:53:05 raspberrypi kernel: [  419.127086] usb 1-1.2: device descriptor read/64, error -110
Nov 22 04:53:21 raspberrypi kernel: [  434.317060] usb 1-1.2: device descriptor read/64, error -110
Nov 22 04:53:21 raspberrypi kernel: [  434.507089] usb 1-1.2: new full-speed USB device number 5 using dwc_otg
Nov 22 04:53:36 raspberrypi kernel: [  449.587061] usb 1-1.2: device descriptor read/64, error -110
Nov 22 04:53:51 raspberrypi kernel: [  464.777051] usb 1-1.2: device descriptor read/64, error -110
Nov 22 04:53:51 raspberrypi kernel: [  464.967065] usb 1-1.2: new full-speed USB device number 6 using dwc_otg
Nov 22 04:54:02 raspberrypi kernel: [  475.387042] usb 1-1.2: device not accepting address 6, error -110
Nov 22 04:54:02 raspberrypi kernel: [  475.467059] usb 1-1.2: new full-speed USB device number 7 using dwc_otg
Nov 22 04:54:12 raspberrypi kernel: [  485.887084] usb 1-1.2: device not accepting address 7, error -110
Nov 22 04:54:12 raspberrypi kernel: [  485.887311] usb 1-1-port2: unable to enumerate USB device
When I connect the keyboard directly to the Pi Zero, it works:

Code: Select all

pi@raspberrypi:/var/log$ lsusb -t
/:  Bus 01.Port 1: Dev 1, Class=root_hub, Driver=dwc_otg/1p, 480M
    |__ Port 1: Dev 8, If 0, Class=Human Interface Device, Driver=usbhid, 12M
    |__ Port 1: Dev 8, If 1, Class=Human Interface Device, Driver=usbhid, 12M
    |__ Port 1: Dev 8, If 2, Class=Human Interface Device, Driver=usbhid, 12M
pi@raspberrypi:/var/log$ usb-devices

T:  Bus=01 Lev=00 Prnt=00 Port=00 Cnt=00 Dev#=  1 Spd=480 MxCh= 1
D:  Ver= 2.00 Cls=09(hub  ) Sub=00 Prot=01 MxPS=64 #Cfgs=  1
P:  Vendor=1d6b ProdID=0002 Rev=04.01
S:  Manufacturer=Linux 4.1.13+ dwc_otg_hcd
S:  Product=DWC OTG Controller
S:  SerialNumber=20980000.usb
C:  #Ifs= 1 Cfg#= 1 Atr=e0 MxPwr=0mA
I:  If#= 0 Alt= 0 #EPs= 1 Cls=09(hub  ) Sub=00 Prot=00 Driver=hub

T:  Bus=01 Lev=01 Prnt=01 Port=00 Cnt=01 Dev#=  8 Spd=12  MxCh= 0
D:  Ver= 2.00 Cls=00(>ifc ) Sub=00 Prot=00 MxPS=32 #Cfgs=  1
P:  Vendor=046d ProdID=c52b Rev=24.00
S:  Manufacturer=Logitech
S:  Product=USB Receiver
C:  #Ifs= 3 Cfg#= 1 Atr=a0 MxPwr=98mA
I:  If#= 0 Alt= 0 #EPs= 1 Cls=03(HID  ) Sub=01 Prot=01 Driver=usbhid
I:  If#= 1 Alt= 0 #EPs= 1 Cls=03(HID  ) Sub=01 Prot=02 Driver=usbhid
I:  If#= 2 Alt= 0 #EPs= 1 Cls=03(HID  ) Sub=00 Prot=00 Driver=usbhid
Here is the kernel.log output when connecting the keyboard directly to the Pi Zero:

Code: Select all

Nov 22 04:56:36 raspberrypi kernel: [  630.177142] Indeed it is in host mode hprt0 = 00021501
Nov 22 04:56:37 raspberrypi kernel: [  630.357013] usb 1-1: new full-speed USB device number 8 using dwc_otg
Nov 22 04:56:37 raspberrypi kernel: [  630.357431] Indeed it is in host mode hprt0 = 00021501
Nov 22 04:56:37 raspberrypi kernel: [  630.560250] usb 1-1: New USB device found, idVendor=046d, idProduct=c52b
Nov 22 04:56:37 raspberrypi kernel: [  630.560281] usb 1-1: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=0
Nov 22 04:56:37 raspberrypi kernel: [  630.560294] usb 1-1: Product: USB Receiver
Nov 22 04:56:37 raspberrypi kernel: [  630.560305] usb 1-1: Manufacturer: Logitech
Nov 22 04:56:37 raspberrypi kernel: [  630.580847] input: Logitech USB Receiver as /devices/platform/soc/20980000.usb/usb1/1-1/1-1:1.0/0003:046D:C52B.0001/input/input0
Nov 22 04:56:37 raspberrypi kernel: [  630.637814] hid-generic 0003:046D:C52B.0001: input,hidraw0: USB HID v1.11 Keyboard [Logitech USB Receiver] on usb-20980000.usb-1/input0
Nov 22 04:56:37 raspberrypi kernel: [  630.655328] input: Logitech USB Receiver as /devices/platform/soc/20980000.usb/usb1/1-1/1-1:1.1/0003:046D:C52B.0002/input/input1
Nov 22 04:56:37 raspberrypi kernel: [  630.713229] hid-generic 0003:046D:C52B.0002: input,hiddev0,hidraw1: USB HID v1.11 Mouse [Logitech USB Receiver] on usb-20980000.usb-1/input1
Nov 22 04:56:37 raspberrypi kernel: [  630.729596] hid-generic 0003:046D:C52B.0003: hiddev0,hidraw2: USB HID v1.11 Device [Logitech USB Receiver] on usb-20980000.usb-1/input2
Not sure if all that data would help anyone figure out what's happening here. Strangely, my usb wifi dongle works fine connected through the hub (like aawood above). I've tried the Logitech keyboard, an IBM combo keyboard/trackpad, and a regular old Dell usb keyboard. None work through the hub. The hub is powered by a 2 amp power supply. The hub does not backfeed power to the Pi.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Mike M.

Mikemo
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Re: Pizero - 4 hubs tried, nothing works

Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:24 pm

Received my Belkin F4U016 yesterday. It is a simple, powered, 4 port usb 2.0 hub.
Hooked up the Pi Zero and it works perfectly. This hub does not power the pi through the main usb, so I have two usb cables going to it, one for power and the other for usb, both connected to the new Belkin hub.
So, it seems that the Pi Zero is fussy about which hub is used and what you plug in.
Hope this helps someone else who thinks they are going nuts trying to get their Pi Zero to play nice with a usb hub.

One thing I am confused about is the USB term "OTG". The first hub I bought was an OTG hub, and the Pi Zero usb says OTG as well. Can anyone explain that term?

Thanks.

drgeoff
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Re: Pizero - 4 hubs tried, nothing works

Tue Jan 26, 2016 7:29 pm

OTG. On The Go. Easily found using a search engine.

Means a USB port which can function as host or client. Frequenty the switching is automatic by sensing via the extra contact in the 5 present in a micro-USB socket.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Crtek
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Re: Pizero - 4 hubs tried, nothing works

Sat Apr 23, 2016 3:40 pm

I have the same problem as you guys. Everything works without the hubs i've tried and the hubs work on my pc.

Has anyone found a cheap hub that works with the zero? I really don't want to buy a costly one, since by this point I've almost given up that ANY hub will work with the zero and I really don't want to keep spending money on hubs that cost more than the pi and prove themselves to be useless.

aawood
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Re: Pizero - 4 hubs tried, nothing works

Sun Oct 02, 2016 5:31 pm

Resurrecting this for anyone still looking, and future searchers.

I can confirm that the Broadcom WiFi Adaptor w/ 2 port USB hub works for this, the same one Trevor showed himself using above: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00 ... UTF8&psc=1

My understanding (and anyone who knows more on the subject, please feel free to chime in) is that the issue isn't power consumption, but whether the hub has it's own on-board controller (hence why using a powered hub doesn't seem to be a magic bullet). The Pi Zero doesn't just only have one USB port, it can only *handle* one USB port; the hardware simply isn't built to manage more. Some hubs pass their ports along to the parent to manage, but because the Pi Zero can only handle one, it fails. The Broadcom (apparently) has it's own controller, so everything works as it should. At very least, I confirm that it works for *me*; I made no other changes than plugging in this hub, and now everything works as expected.

sander78
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Re: Pizero - 4 hubs tried, nothing works

Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:51 pm

I have tested several hubs and found this one to be working perfectly, including connecting keyboards to the hub:
http://sudomod.com/wiki/index.php?title ... SB_2.0_HUB

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FTrevorGowen
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Re: Pizero - 4 hubs tried, nothing works

Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:27 am

FWIW, since my o.p. I've successfully used several other 4-port hubs or hubs + ethernet:
http://www.cpmspectrepi.uk/raspberry_pi ... t_Mini_Hub
http://www.cpmspectrepi.uk/raspberry_pi ... ng_Devices
(see also last three listed here: http://www.cpmspectrepi.uk/raspberry_pi ... Dlist.html )
Trev.
Still running Raspbian Jessie or Stretch on some older Pi's (an A, B1, 2xB2, B+, P2B, 3xP0, P0W, 2xP3A+, P3B+, P3B, B+, and a A+) but Buster on the P4B's. See: https://www.cpmspectrepi.uk/raspberry_pi/raspiidx.htm

UK_Ham
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Location: Surrey

Re: Pizero - 4 hubs tried, nothing works

Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:42 am

I use this one, No problems at all, Mouse,Keyboard and Wi Fi dongle plugged in. then power up Zero.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322069790147? ... EBIDX%3AIT
Name is Mike, Radio Ham and Weather Nut.
Total Beginner with Rpi Zero

winx
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:18 pm

Re: Pizero - 4 hubs tried, nothing works

Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:07 pm

Just thought i'd add to the subject as i've had quite a few issues along these lines (lots of hubs tried and not many actually working) hubs based on the fe1.1s chip (https://cdn-shop.adafruit.com/product-f ... .+1.0).pdf) work fine and are found in quite a few cheap hubs, it also requires nothing more than a couple of caps to run (bare minimum).

Cant see too clearly but the hub UK_ham linked could be using it (28pin soic)

edit: fix url
Last edited by winx on Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

drgeoff
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Re: Pizero - 4 hubs tried, nothing works

Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:18 pm

All the really cheap (£1 shops) hubs I've seen have a chip die mounted straight to the PCB and covered with a black blob.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

winx
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:18 pm

Re: Pizero - 4 hubs tried, nothing works

Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:19 pm

heh, yes had a few of those. Have bought i think 3 of something like this in the past http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281434772854 or http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201755142835 one was the black blob style (that didn't work beyond the hub being detected) and the other 2 had the fe1.1 chip at the core of them and had 2 smd caps and a crystal on the board (although it has a inbuilt oscillator and, well everything else in the package apparently).

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