Cod3r
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:31 am

Re: Network problems and hangs... losing faith...

Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:00 am

having the same problem. I have an external dvd player attached.. Seems obvious it's too much power draw

it is strange though that if i'm just on the console i can mount the drive and seem to navigate it w/out problems, but as soon as i start mucking around with it in lxde the whole system hangs up..

ifconfig sometimes takes minutes to even respond.. so i ctrl+alt+backspace and boom network comes instantly back.. but my drive never recovers.

from then on it's /dev/sr0 no such block device or w/e error. I reboot and back to square 1.. rinse and repeat..

what to do what to do... I see a ton of people are having this problem, but does not seem like there is any solution in sight other than to not use USB. Which for me makes the pi pretty useless.

rpifreeze
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:03 pm

Re: Network problems and hangs... losing faith...

Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:16 pm

Just made few tests on Squeeze image.
My internal card is SanDisk MicroSD 8 GB (2 or 4 class).
I have other storage connected to USB - fast USB3.0 pendrive, another SD card (even Sandisk extreme 30MB/s). I also tries connecting SSD disk but power was drained from DIFFERENT USB hub - not the one RPi is powered from.
Now...
I try to upload file via FTP to RPI via ethernet, so data goes to mounted "external storage"
Transfer varies from 2 to 8 MB/s.
After few seconds, when memory ends, it freezes completely.
Despite adding additional 512 MB swap, RPI freezes when RAM runs out.
I'm sure it's not an overheating issue - I even put 12x12 fan on RPi to make sure it doesn't overheat.
Nope, USB is propbably f...up in Debian 19-04-2012 image (fully updated).
What's interesting, is that it doesn't freeze when I upload data directly onto SD card in slot - I think it's not connected via USB subsystem and that's why it doesn't freeze during upload/download.
I anyone had a solution, please put solution here.
usb and broadcom issues will never be solved...Too much time passed, too much to be done...

german_pi_user
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:10 pm

Re: Network problems and hangs... losing faith...

Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:46 pm

Just had another freeze. My pi ran without any issues for more than 5 days and then just stopped.

Code: Select all

pi@raspberrypi ~ $ uprecords
     #               Uptime | System                                     Boot up
----------------------------+---------------------------------------------------
     1     5 days, 02:55:29 | Linux 3.1.9+              Sat Jul 21 19:32:44 2012
     2     1 day , 04:41:55 | Linux 3.1.9+              Wed Jul 18 19:11:14 2012
     3     1 day , 02:28:48 | Linux 3.1.9+              Fri Jul 20 16:37:06 2012
     4     0 days, 16:16:50 | Linux 3.1.9+              Thu Jul 19 23:56:39 2012
     5     0 days, 00:20:14 | Linux 3.1.9+              Sat Jul 21 19:11:05 2012
->   6     0 days, 00:05:38 | Linux 3.1.9+              Thu Jul 26 22:38:00 2012
----------------------------+---------------------------------------------------
1up in     0 days, 00:14:37 | at                        Thu Jul 26 22:58:14 2012
no1 in     5 days, 02:49:52 | at                        Wed Aug  1 01:33:29 2012
    up     8 days, 02:48:54 | since                     Wed Jul 18 19:11:14 2012
  down     0 days, 00:43:30 | since                     Wed Jul 18 19:11:14 2012
   %up               99.629 | since                     Wed Jul 18 19:11:14 2012

zenomega
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:33 pm

Re: Network problems and hangs... losing faith...

Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:52 pm

Still problems with wifi and rtorrent saving to usb drive (external with own pu). Any fix? still locks the pi.

rpifreeze
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:03 pm

Re: Network problems and hangs... losing faith...

Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:54 pm

I solved freezing by creating my own kernel based on source code available on https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux.got. I downloaded full package (without using git) and compiled it myself.
My kernel version is now without "+"sign, but it doesn't lock up, transfer over USB reached 10 MB/s and doesn't freeze.
Compile kernel by own might be tricky but solves all my problems with rpi.
Now I bought Atheros 9k wifi card and...hell. Who's willing to sell his own RPi ? :)
usb and broadcom issues will never be solved...Too much time passed, too much to be done...

xleon
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:37 am

Re: Network problems and hangs... losing faith...

Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:08 pm

I'm excited to hear the news that someone may have fixed this as I've tried everything and still it's incredibly unreliable. Used several quality PSUs (including one accurate to 0.01V), three kernels (Debian, Raspbian and one I compiled), tried different external USB drives, different memory cards, different swap/VM settings for memory. Have heat sinks on the hottest ICs as well.

It's random - sometimes it will work with the USB/NIC running several MB/s for hours, other times it will last just minutes before freezing.

Would you be able to upload the firmware in a ZIP file to somewhere on the net for us to grab and try please? (This would best for me as it would save time having to compile yet another kernel as I've done several with no improvement). If you're unable to do that, the config file uploaded somewhere at the very least would be very useful so we can compile the same kernel and hopefully get the same positive results 8-)

Thanks.

rpifreeze
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:03 pm

Re: Network problems and hangs... losing faith...

Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:04 pm

Yes, I will upload if not whole source, then at least .config, but now I'm doing "netinstall" on my RPi so this will take a while :)
Meanwhile, try some solution, like emptying cache. I also had similar problems as you, that screen got black, transfers stopped, but this all happened when RPi run out of free memory.
Try setting one parameter in the 5 sec loop.
Use something like this
------------code--------------
while true; do
echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches
sleep 5 # 5 seconds
done
------------code--------------
In my case, RPi stopped freezing.

You will get write speeds as your medium permits = no using cache, so RPi will always have plenty of free ram.
usb and broadcom issues will never be solved...Too much time passed, too much to be done...

rpifreeze
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:03 pm

Re: Network problems and hangs... losing faith...

Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:10 am

I've uploaded needed files to my website:
Link: http://marxio-tools.net/rpi/customkernel1.tar
md5: b8b242613d86162115c8264a4b6a9a78
(if we're already at checksums, compare it with this one for Win http://marxio-tools.net/download/Marxio-FCV.exe )

Files inside:
kernel.img and modules to put onto you SD card.
Once put, RPi will boot with this custom 3.1.9-cutdown+ kernel.

Additionally, make sure you have this parameter set in /etc/sysctl.conf:
root@rpi:/# cat /etc/sysctl.conf | grep min
vm.min_free_kbytes = 16384
No need to tune and increase it.

Also, up2date files are needed (except my kernel.img) from here, on boot partition:
https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware ... aster/boot
Name file *_240* as start.elf to have the most memory available for your Rpi.

FYI,
My RPi is connected with 220V adapter that gives 4x0,5Amp. To power my Rpi, I use some strange II cable, so I plug 2xUSB into power adaptor, to give me ~1A to power Rpi.
I also use Logilink USB HUB UA0091 (USB3.0) and HDD connected to it.
To summarize - upload to HDD on RPi - 4 MB/s. Download from this attached HDD 8 MB/s.
All values are constant - do not vary.
If it fixes you problem, I will upload my modified kernel .config file (I just needed iptables, arp and other things for my multipurpose box)
usb and broadcom issues will never be solved...Too much time passed, too much to be done...

xleon
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:37 am

Re: Network problems and hangs... losing faith...

Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:50 pm

You're a star - thanks!

Now I've completed my DIY duties, I will download this and have a play this evening.

For interest, I have a similar setup to you - 2.5Amp PSU with split cables to power the Raspberry and USB drive which also has root & swap on it. Has made it soooo much faster than the SD card alone!

xleon
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:37 am

Re: Network problems and hangs... losing faith...

Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:53 am

OK, all up and running now for about an hour with no issues. Will leave my PC hammering it via Samba to see if it's now stable. If it does remain stable, will be a major breakthrough.

xleon
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:37 am

Re: Network problems and hangs... losing faith...

Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:45 pm

Lasted a whole night of copying / deleting files in a loop via Samba and is still up and running :o

Absolute genius piece of work rpifreeze, thanks. Do you know what particular option(s) in the config file you changed to improve this?

rpifreeze
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:03 pm

Re: Network problems and hangs... losing faith...

Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:16 pm

Nah, don't remeber what it was, since I made changed to fit RPi as fully functional....versatile box :)
iptables added, bonding, bridging, external modules, wifi and so on....
I think it's not related to .config but mostly with newest kernel update by popcornmix.
I updated local git checkout after 4 hours from commit and...it all started to work.
I will now test LAN card, but since popcornmix changes were related to USB subsystem (evil cause for all recent problems with stability, like hub, wifi, lan, freezing, kernel panics etc), but guess everything will be ok too.
FYI
Meanwhile, I bought portable battery bank 5000 mA so I can now take my RPi with mini wlan stick (Asus USB-N10) everywhere I want. Bank provides 1A and that's enough for wlan, RPi and pendrive.
usb and broadcom issues will never be solved...Too much time passed, too much to be done...

rpifreeze
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:03 pm

Re: Network problems and hangs... losing faith...

Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:33 pm

xleon wrote:You're a star - thanks!
Now I've completed my DIY duties, I will download this and have a play this evening.
For interest, I have a similar setup to you - 2.5Amp PSU with split cables to power the Raspberry and USB drive which also has root & swap on it. Has made it soooo much faster than the SD card alone!
I can tell you that USB hub I bought half a year ago for my stationery PC, USB 3.0 hub works better in Linux than in Windows :)
Best of the best - it's powered with 4 amps - really hard to find such model on the market, but that to such high value, I can connect anything I want to my RPi.
Currently it has
- pendrive
- sd (internal)
- mini wifi stick
- pl2303
- SSD (64 GB Patriot Octane?)
All connected to this USB hub but also RPi is powered from this hub (as the last 4th port).
I draws 8 watt only..
Se screenshot
Poor quality, but spent all money for RPi and accessories ;)
Attachments
Photo0115.jpg
testing RPi
Photo0115.jpg (61.7 KiB) Viewed 4289 times
usb and broadcom issues will never be solved...Too much time passed, too much to be done...

rspitz
Posts: 58
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:25 pm

Re: Network problems and hangs... losing faith...

Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:58 am

Hi rpifreeze,

thanks for providing a fix for the USB and network instability issues that so many people here have been experiencing.

I'd like to try out your modifications, but am a bit unsure about the exact steps to take. Could you please explain in more detail which files from your tarball have to go where, and which files to dowload from the githup repository?

Regards, Richard

halfabiscuit
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:55 am

Re: Network problems and hangs... losing faith...

Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:23 pm

Tried rpifreeze's recompiled kernel to no avail. Still locks up after a short amount of time and needs a reboot.
I have decided I am going to RMA my pi and try to get a replacement. I know there are a lot of helpful, talented people dedicated to making suggestions on this forum but my experiences with the pi so far make me thing that this product was not ready for general release. I have not even got past stage one of having a stable, working product, let alone trying out all the things I want to on my pi.
Disappointed...

lostintime
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:30 am

Re: Network problems and hangs... losing faith...

Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:58 pm

halfabiscuit wrote:Tried rpifreeze's recompiled kernel to no avail. Still locks up after a short amount of time and needs a reboot.
I have decided I am going to RMA my pi and try to get a replacement. I know there are a lot of helpful, talented people dedicated to making suggestions on this forum but my experiences with the pi so far make me thing that this product was not ready for general release.
Agreed. The Raspberry Pi feels like a prototype to me, not a finished product.
I have not even got past stage one of having a stable, working product, let alone trying out all the things I want to on my pi.
I feel sorry for you. To sum up for the possible benefit of others, the golden rules with the Raspberry Pi appear to be:

1. Never attach a USB hub of any kind to the Pi, including devices that have built-in hubs such as some keyboards.
2. There are power supplies on the market which don't work well with the Pi despite working well with other products which have the same or greater power requirements. This is because the Pi has an unusual sensitivity to voltage sag. Don't try to use a power supply which is rated at less than 1000 mA unless you are prepared to deal with the problems this may cause. Use a power supply known to work well with the Pi if at all possible.
3. Anything attached to the Pi's USB ports other than a basic keyboard and mouse can cause problems.

Sadly, I would not recommend the purchase of a Raspberry Pi until the problems detailed above are solved, especially since you may still encounter problems even if you follow all of the above rules.

halfabiscuit
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:55 am

Re: Network problems and hangs... losing faith...

Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:58 am

Valuable though this forum is there does seem to be a lot of conflicting information in different threads with people saying "well you should definitely always do x" then someone else saying "make sure you never do x". I did not expect my pi to work out of the box and all be plain sailing but I think I have invested a lot of time/money (in buying alternative PSUs/peripherals) in just trying to get it stable. I would not consider myself a novice by any means.
I honestly believe there is a fundamental hardware fault with my pi which is why I am going down the RMA route. I have tried every conceivable variation of hardware and software distros and I still end up at the same place - a device that works for 10 minutes and then hangs.
I want this product to work as much as anyone else - I just think either I have been very unlucky or the product is some way from maturity.

obcd
Posts: 917
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:06 pm

Re: Network problems and hangs... losing faith...

Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:13 am

I think it's a combination of facts. There are some known issues which will hopefully be solved in the near future. They sometimes make it difficult to determine a real hardware problem. One bad soldering ball of the soc can cause the issues you are seeing. When the chip warms up, the pin can temporary disconnect. I am lucky to have one at work and one at home so that I can at least compare the issues I am having. I hope you have another (better working) pi soon.

lostintime
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:30 am

Re: Network problems and hangs... losing faith...

Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:16 pm

halfabiscuit wrote:Valuable though this forum is there does seem to be a lot of conflicting information in different threads with people saying "well you should definitely always do x" then someone else saying "make sure you never do x". I did not expect my pi to work out of the box and all be plain sailing...
Why not? That seems like an entirely reasonable expectation to me.
I honestly believe there is a fundamental hardware fault with my pi which is why I am going down the RMA route. I have tried every conceivable variation of hardware and software distros and I still end up at the same place - a device that works for 10 minutes and then hangs.
Agreed. It certainly sounds like your Pi is faulty. But of course even a "perfect" Pi doesn't work as it should, which is a major problem. The BCM2835 SoC itself is partly the problem and I don't think its issues with USB will ever be truly solved, even if a purely software solution is possible in theory. We know the Raspberry Pi Foundation got a "special" deal from Broadcom on the BCM2835 and I have to wonder if that was because of this.

halfabiscuit
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:55 am

Re: Network problems and hangs... losing faith...

Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:36 pm

lostintime wrote:Why not? That seems like an entirely reasonable expectation to me.
I think you have to be realistic about the situation - this was the first production run of a revolutionary idea and whilst not specifically sold as an alpha/beta I think anyone who expected this to be instantly plug and play with any bit of hardware you choose would be quite naive. I expected some pain... just not quite this much.

obcd
Posts: 917
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:06 pm

Re: Network problems and hangs... losing faith...

Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:49 pm

As the factories still can't follow the demand, I assume that the testing isn't always done very carefully.
You are probably having bad luck with yours. Let's hope your next one gives you a better experience.
Who knows the usb issue will be solved than as well. According to Liz and Gordon, it's the usb driver that was written in a hurry. Another big improvement that hopefully will arrive one day is a hardware accelerated x environment. It all feels rather slow the way it's implemented now.

lostintime
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:30 am

Re: Network problems and hangs... losing faith...

Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:52 pm

halfabiscuit wrote:I think you have to be realistic about the situation - this was the first production run of a revolutionary idea and whilst not specifically sold as an alpha/beta I think anyone who expected this to be instantly plug and play with any bit of hardware you choose would be quite naive
There is nothing revolutionary about the Raspberry Pi, technically speaking. Bang for the buck is what makes the Pi interesting.

I don't expect the Pi to work "plug and play with any bit of hardware you choose". A reasonable expectation in my book is for the Pi to work perfectly with USB hubs. It doesn't.

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mahjongg
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Re: Network problems and hangs... losing faith...

Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:12 pm

lostintime wrote:I don't expect the Pi to work "plug and play with any bit of hardware you choose". A reasonable expectation in my book is for the Pi to work perfectly with USB hubs. It doesn't.
not to be pedantic, only to further knowledge, but you do understand that the PI has a complete hub inside?! One that has three ports, two of them are routed out to connectors, the third is connected to a built in USB Ethernet adapter! So if you say "I expect the PI to work with a HUB", you in fact are expecting the bare PI to work (with its built in hub).

If you have an issue with connectivity with a further hub you you should rephrase your statement to "I expect the PI to work with a hub behind its existing hub".

Again, I'm not trying to be pedantic, I'm just trying to ensure that everyone understands the issues, so that a solution can be found. It's no good to try to understand the problem if you are not aware of all the facts.

So do say, the PI works perfectly with its built in hub, and standard low current low speed USB devices connected to its built in hub, there are problems through if you try to connect another hub to the one built in.

But maybe I'm mistaken, and there are really problems with the PI's built in hub, connected to a mixture of USB devices.

Note, THE PI IS ONLY COMPATIBLE WITH LOW CURRENT LOW SPEED DEVICES CONNECTED TO ITS HUB PORTS, I apologise for shouting!

lostintime
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:30 am

Re: Network problems and hangs... losing faith...

Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:07 pm

mahjongg wrote:
lostintime wrote:I don't expect the Pi to work "plug and play with any bit of hardware you choose". A reasonable expectation in my book is for the Pi to work perfectly with USB hubs. It doesn't.
not to be pedantic, only to further knowledge, but you do understand that the PI has a complete hub inside?!
Yes, I do. So what?
One that has three ports, two of them are routed out to connectors, the third is connected to a built in USB Ethernet adapter! So if you say "I expect the PI to work with a HUB", you in fact are expecting the bare PI to work (with its built in hub).
This is ridiculous. Clearly I was referring to an external hub. The vast majority of people who read my post would interpret my comment that way. Incidentally, your comment about how USB is configured on the Pi isn't even correct.
If you have an issue with connectivity with a further hub you you should rephrase your statement to "I expect the PI to work with a hub behind its existing hub".

Again, I'm not trying to be pedantic
You may not be trying, but you are succeeding.
Note, THE PI IS ONLY COMPATIBLE WITH LOW CURRENT LOW SPEED DEVICES CONNECTED TO ITS HUB PORTS, I apologise for shouting!
You seem to be implying that directly connected low current high speed USB devices cause problems with the Pi. That's news to me.

I want to know why the Raspberry Pi Foundation haven't made it perfectly clear, i.e. with a statement on the front page, about the known problems with USB on the Raspberry Pi.

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mahjongg
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Re: Network problems and hangs... losing faith...

Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:28 pm

Yes, I knew when I wrote that message that people would construct my comments as pedantic. Sorry about that.

I'm not a member of the Raspberry PI foundation, just a simple volunteer, but I do know that whatever issues there are, even for people that try to use it far beyond for what it was designed for, (that is: it was designed only for use with a wired keyboard and a mouse) they are trying to resolve any issues there are as best as they can.
Currently there seems to be issue with conflicts between the mouse driver and high speed USB devices, (such as ethernet adapters) and issues with the USB stack to be too processor intensive, so it seems they have put one of their best and most suitable, (as in having acces to specific knowledge) volunteers on the task of trying to solve these issues.

The "polyfuses issue", isn't a "design error", even if it inconveniences people who try to use the PI for things it wasn't designed for, because it was designed that way exactly according to the purpose it was designed for. (yes, I am convinced of that now, even though I was one of the first to mention the "polyfuse problem").

As to using anything but "single current unit USB devices" directly on the PI, I can only quote the FAQ:
How do I connect a mouse and keyboard?

Model A has one USB port and Model B has 2. Beyond this, mice, keyboards, network adapters and external storage will all connect via a USB hub.
so if you are using anything more complex than a wired keyboard and/or mouse you are required to power it from the power provided by an external hub!

I'm not a member of the Raspberry PI foundation, just a volunteer for the task of moderating this forum, all knowledge I gained is by constantly reading this forum, and by using my best posible judgement as an electronic professional with at least 35 years of experience.

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