5ft24dave
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:38 am

Re: Raspberry Pi 3 B+ lockups

Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:55 pm

5ft24dave wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:15 pm
jamesh wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:54 am
5ft24dave wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:10 pm


Latest version of Raspbian Stretch. Ran rpi-update yesterday after the first crash of the day. About 1AM last night, it did it again. Top only showed about 0.2% load at the time, and CPU temp was 41 Deg C.
Again, see my previous post.
Sed ram speed to 450 letting it run to see if it has anymore reboots
Started it running memtester at 6am, and have been ssh'd in from work. ran the CPUBurn.a53 for about an hour, then killed that, and it's been rock steady with the sdram_freq=450. commented out the cpu_freq=1200.

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Gavinmc42
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Re: Raspberry Pi 3 B+ lockups

Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:13 am

I have one Pi3B+ that consistently locks up.

I use Gentoo64 and run the glxgears demo and the gears stop turning on lockup.
Locked up with
sdram_freq=500. arm_freq=1400
sdram_freq=450. arm_freq=1400
sdram_freq=400. arm_freq=1400

Edited config.txt - sdram_freq=400 arm_freq=1200 fixes the lockup on this Pi3B+
My other Pi3B+ runs fine at 500, 1400.

No lockup yet at 500, 1200.
Winter here so it is cooler, so not sure if it is temperature dependent.
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Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

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Gavinmc42
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Re: Raspberry Pi 3 B+ lockups

Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:31 am

Swapped SD card, lockup at 500,1400 within a few minutes.
No lockup at 500, 1300 yet.

So I conclude, at least on one of my Pi3B+s, lockup is arm core freq dependent.
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

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Gavinmc42
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Re: Raspberry Pi 3 B+ lockups

Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:45 am

Pi3B+ is now fine at 500,1300.
Is there a way the VC4 can monitors the ARM cpu temp and drops the clock if the ARM locks up?
I did notice in lockup the SOC gets warmer.
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Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

jamesh
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Re: Raspberry Pi 3 B+ lockups

Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:05 am

I suspect these are slightly out of spec SoC's, rather than being temperature dependent. It's possible some passed test when they should not have. The tests should now be more thorough.
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Gavinmc42
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Re: Raspberry Pi 3 B+ lockups

Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:42 pm

I suspect these are slightly out of spec SoC's
Yep, borderline edge case, probably fine at 1399MHz ;)
And I did get these two in the first batch for sale.

It took 5-10 minutes before locking up at 1400MHz.
Not sure how long they are tested for in the factory?
Even though the temp reported was 58C it did feel uncomfortably hot.
I might test tomorrow with remote IR temp reader, comparing the two.

Is there away to use the VC4 to watchdog the ARM cores and unlock them?
Make the VC4 lower the ARM clock?
The VC4 must still be running because the display was ok just frozen.
Or is the HDMI just DMAing from memory without VC4 help?
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Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

5ft24dave
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:38 am

Re: Raspberry Pi 3 B+ lockups

Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:32 pm

jamesh wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:54 am
5ft24dave wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:10 pm
jamesh wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:26 am


Are you using the latest Raspbian? If you are, can you try getting the very latest development kernel with rpi-update and see if that helps?
Latest version of Raspbian Stretch. Ran rpi-update yesterday after the first crash of the day. About 1AM last night, it did it again. Top only showed about 0.2% load at the time, and CPU temp was 41 Deg C.
Again, see my previous post.
Reboots continue. Loaded a fresh SD card again with latest Raspbian stretch, no additional software to rule that out, did a full update and rpi-update for the latest firmware, no change, sdram_freq=450 still. Reboots are becoming more frequent. At GPIO pins still seeing 5.2v
Thanks

5ft24dave
Posts: 11
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Re: Raspberry Pi 3 B+ lockups

Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:33 pm

Gavinmc42 wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:42 pm
I suspect these are slightly out of spec SoC's
Yep, borderline edge case, probably fine at 1399MHz ;)
And I did get these two in the first batch for sale.

It took 5-10 minutes before locking up at 1400MHz.
Not sure how long they are tested for in the factory?
Even though the temp reported was 58C it did feel uncomfortably hot.
I might test tomorrow with remote IR temp reader, comparing the two.

Is there away to use the VC4 to watchdog the ARM cores and unlock them?
Make the VC4 lower the ARM clock?
The VC4 must still be running because the display was ok just frozen.
Or is the HDMI just DMAing from memory without VC4 help?
58 deg C is 134 Deg F... so it should feel uncomfortably hot

jamesh
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Re: Raspberry Pi 3 B+ lockups

Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:45 pm

Gavinmc42 wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:42 pm
I suspect these are slightly out of spec SoC's
Yep, borderline edge case, probably fine at 1399MHz ;)
And I did get these two in the first batch for sale.

It took 5-10 minutes before locking up at 1400MHz.
Not sure how long they are tested for in the factory?
Even though the temp reported was 58C it did feel uncomfortably hot.
I might test tomorrow with remote IR temp reader, comparing the two.

Is there away to use the VC4 to watchdog the ARM cores and unlock them?
Make the VC4 lower the ARM clock?
The VC4 must still be running because the display was ok just frozen.
Or is the HDMI just DMAing from memory without VC4 help?
Not the assembly factory, the factory/fab that makes the SoCs themselves, so testing the chips by themselves before they get put on the board.

In the case of a frozen display, some parts of the SoC could be fine - there are HW blocks on there that do different tasks, and they can run independently. So one could crash or fail for some reason, whilst the rest is working fine.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
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jamesh
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Re: Raspberry Pi 3 B+ lockups

Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:48 pm

5ft24dave wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:32 pm
jamesh wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:54 am
5ft24dave wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:10 pm


Latest version of Raspbian Stretch. Ran rpi-update yesterday after the first crash of the day. About 1AM last night, it did it again. Top only showed about 0.2% load at the time, and CPU temp was 41 Deg C.
Again, see my previous post.
Reboots continue. Loaded a fresh SD card again with latest Raspbian stretch, no additional software to rule that out, did a full update and rpi-update for the latest firmware, no change, sdram_freq=450 still. Reboots are becoming more frequent. At GPIO pins still seeing 5.2v
Thanks
You might have one of the very few boards that's simply doesn't like running at the required speeds. They don't get hot AFAIK, they just stop. They might get hot after the lockup. What's odd is that it reboots - I would not expect a lockup to reboot (unless you are deliberately rebooting somehow?)

I'm presuming you just have the one board? So nothing to compare with?
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Please direct all questions to the forum, I do not do support via PM.

5ft24dave
Posts: 11
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Re: Raspberry Pi 3 B+ lockups

Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:17 pm

jamesh wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:48 pm
5ft24dave wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:32 pm
jamesh wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:54 am


Again, see my previous post.
Reboots continue. Loaded a fresh SD card again with latest Raspbian stretch, no additional software to rule that out, did a full update and rpi-update for the latest firmware, no change, sdram_freq=450 still. Reboots are becoming more frequent. At GPIO pins still seeing 5.2v
Thanks
You might have one of the very few boards that's simply doesn't like running at the required speeds. They don't get hot AFAIK, they just stop. They might get hot after the lockup. What's odd is that it reboots - I would not expect a lockup to reboot (unless you are deliberately rebooting somehow?)

I'm presuming you just have the one board? So nothing to compare with?
Yep, From temp logging, it never seems to get over 45 degrees. My SSH terminal disappears, and I log back in and check uptime, and it's only a couple minutes. Also syslog shows nothing. Normal messages, no errors, shutting down etc, and suddenly all the startup messages.
It is my only 3B+. I have a 2B+ sitting here that was running flawlessly on octoprint, decided to get the 3B+ so I'd have the extra little bit of "oomph" for webcam and possibly some other apps.

jamesh
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Re: Raspberry Pi 3 B+ lockups

Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:07 am

5ft24dave wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:17 pm
jamesh wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:48 pm
5ft24dave wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:32 pm


Reboots continue. Loaded a fresh SD card again with latest Raspbian stretch, no additional software to rule that out, did a full update and rpi-update for the latest firmware, no change, sdram_freq=450 still. Reboots are becoming more frequent. At GPIO pins still seeing 5.2v
Thanks
You might have one of the very few boards that's simply doesn't like running at the required speeds. They don't get hot AFAIK, they just stop. They might get hot after the lockup. What's odd is that it reboots - I would not expect a lockup to reboot (unless you are deliberately rebooting somehow?)

I'm presuming you just have the one board? So nothing to compare with?
Yep, From temp logging, it never seems to get over 45 degrees. My SSH terminal disappears, and I log back in and check uptime, and it's only a couple minutes. Also syslog shows nothing. Normal messages, no errors, shutting down etc, and suddenly all the startup messages.
It is my only 3B+. I have a 2B+ sitting here that was running flawlessly on octoprint, decided to get the 3B+ so I'd have the extra little bit of "oomph" for webcam and possibly some other apps.
A lock up would not reboot so I don't think its one of the test escapes. To actually reboot completely, to me, sounds like the power is being interrupted somehow. Any machinery nearby turning on in the night that might cause a brownout?
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Please direct all questions to the forum, I do not do support via PM.

5ft24dave
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:38 am

Re: Raspberry Pi 3 B+ lockups

Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:40 pm

jamesh wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:07 am
5ft24dave wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:17 pm
jamesh wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:48 pm


You might have one of the very few boards that's simply doesn't like running at the required speeds. They don't get hot AFAIK, they just stop. They might get hot after the lockup. What's odd is that it reboots - I would not expect a lockup to reboot (unless you are deliberately rebooting somehow?)

I'm presuming you just have the one board? So nothing to compare with?
Yep, From temp logging, it never seems to get over 45 degrees. My SSH terminal disappears, and I log back in and check uptime, and it's only a couple minutes. Also syslog shows nothing. Normal messages, no errors, shutting down etc, and suddenly all the startup messages.
It is my only 3B+. I have a 2B+ sitting here that was running flawlessly on octoprint, decided to get the 3B+ so I'd have the extra little bit of "oomph" for webcam and possibly some other apps.
A lock up would not reboot so I don't think its one of the test escapes. To actually reboot completely, to me, sounds like the power is being interrupted somehow. Any machinery nearby turning on in the night that might cause a brownout?
Nothing I can think of. In a quiet residential neighborhood. Both the 3B+ and the 2 B+ are plugged into a UPS. The 2 hasn't rebooted since I rebooted it Monday after an update.

5ft24dave
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:38 am

Re: Raspberry Pi 3 B+ lockups

Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:36 pm

jamesh wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:07 am
5ft24dave wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:17 pm
jamesh wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:48 pm


You might have one of the very few boards that's simply doesn't like running at the required speeds. They don't get hot AFAIK, they just stop. They might get hot after the lockup. What's odd is that it reboots - I would not expect a lockup to reboot (unless you are deliberately rebooting somehow?)

I'm presuming you just have the one board? So nothing to compare with?
Yep, From temp logging, it never seems to get over 45 degrees. My SSH terminal disappears, and I log back in and check uptime, and it's only a couple minutes. Also syslog shows nothing. Normal messages, no errors, shutting down etc, and suddenly all the startup messages.
It is my only 3B+. I have a 2B+ sitting here that was running flawlessly on octoprint, decided to get the 3B+ so I'd have the extra little bit of "oomph" for webcam and possibly some other apps.
A lock up would not reboot so I don't think its one of the test escapes. To actually reboot completely, to me, sounds like the power is being interrupted somehow. Any machinery nearby turning on in the night that might cause a brownout?
Since several people had mentioned possibly the ethernet causing reboots/crashes, I disconnected the ethernet and connected the Pi to my network via WiFi.
It has now been up 20 hours without a hiccup, and I ran a 10 hour print last night and this morning without issue. I'll continue to monitor it and let you know if I see any more issues.

jamesh
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Re: Raspberry Pi 3 B+ lockups

Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:25 am

5ft24dave wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:36 pm
jamesh wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:07 am
5ft24dave wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:17 pm


Yep, From temp logging, it never seems to get over 45 degrees. My SSH terminal disappears, and I log back in and check uptime, and it's only a couple minutes. Also syslog shows nothing. Normal messages, no errors, shutting down etc, and suddenly all the startup messages.
It is my only 3B+. I have a 2B+ sitting here that was running flawlessly on octoprint, decided to get the 3B+ so I'd have the extra little bit of "oomph" for webcam and possibly some other apps.
A lock up would not reboot so I don't think its one of the test escapes. To actually reboot completely, to me, sounds like the power is being interrupted somehow. Any machinery nearby turning on in the night that might cause a brownout?
Since several people had mentioned possibly the ethernet causing reboots/crashes, I disconnected the ethernet and connected the Pi to my network via WiFi.
It has now been up 20 hours without a hiccup, and I ran a 10 hour print last night and this morning without issue. I'll continue to monitor it and let you know if I see any more issues.
That could be power. The ethernet does suck up quite a bit of power, so disconnecting will reduce requirements.

Or it could be driver related, but again, I would not expect reboots.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Please direct all questions to the forum, I do not do support via PM.

wybielacz
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:37 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi 3 B+ lockups

Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:26 am

So when this will be fixed? I want to use the advertised 1000 MBit/s ethernet connection finally...
Right now the ethernet is completely dead and unusable, and it has been like that for 3 months...

ejolson
Posts: 1570
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:47 am

Re: Raspberry Pi 3 B+ lockups

Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:18 am

wybielacz wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:26 am
So when this will be fixed? I want to use the advertised 1000 MBit/s ethernet connection finally...
Right now the ethernet is completely dead and unusable, and it has been like that for 3 months...
It sounds very frustrating. When you switched out the power supply, did you also change the USB power cable?

wybielacz
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:37 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi 3 B+ lockups

Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:21 am

ejolson wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:18 am
It sounds very frustrating. When you switched out the power supply, did you also change the USB power cable?
using the official Raspberry Pi Power supply...

jamesh
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Re: Raspberry Pi 3 B+ lockups

Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:39 am

wybielacz wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:21 am
ejolson wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:18 am
It sounds very frustrating. When you switched out the power supply, did you also change the USB power cable?
using the official Raspberry Pi Power supply...
Odd. The 3b+ on my desktop using standard kernels and firmware runs fine. You either have a dead Pi or there is something about your network or environment it doesn't like.

I presume you are up to date with all softwae.?
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Please direct all questions to the forum, I do not do support via PM.

wybielacz
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:37 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi 3 B+ lockups

Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:19 am

jamesh wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:39 am
Odd. The 3b+ on my desktop using standard kernels and firmware runs fine. You either have a dead Pi or there is something about your network or environment it doesn't like.

I presume you are up to date with all softwae.?
Yes, i am running the latest software.

I had 3 RPi's 3B+ all with the same issues and the latest is personally tested by @PhilE so i do not think the all of the Pi's were dead (and i don't think that PhilE send me a dead 3B+).
A 3B which i have and all other network devices runs fine with Ethernet so do not tell me my network or environment is broken.
As soon as i connect the 3B+ using ethernet and mount a cifs network drive then it is over and the 3B+ freezes overnight.

I am honestly sick of this issue. This just can't be that after 3 months this is not fixed yet...

Proxx
Posts: 5
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Re: Raspberry Pi 3 B+ lockups

Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:16 pm

i lowered my devices ram clock to 450 now i got 4days uptime :D

previous attemts failed.
-switched from wifi to eth
-disabled tx offloading
-disabled smb shares
-removed smb
-monitored the pi's temp

max uptime before was 1day so by lowering the ramspeed i made some progress

add this to /boot/config.txt and reboot

Code: Select all

# Debug PI3B+ lockups
sdram_freq=450

jamesh
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Re: Raspberry Pi 3 B+ lockups

Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:49 pm

wybielacz wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:19 am
jamesh wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:39 am
Odd. The 3b+ on my desktop using standard kernels and firmware runs fine. You either have a dead Pi or there is something about your network or environment it doesn't like.

I presume you are up to date with all softwae.?
Yes, i am running the latest software.

I had 3 RPi's 3B+ all with the same issues and the latest is personally tested by @PhilE so i do not think the all of the Pi's were dead (and i don't think that PhilE send me a dead 3B+).
A 3B which i have and all other network devices runs fine with Ethernet so do not tell me my network or environment is broken.
As soon as i connect the 3B+ using ethernet and mount a cifs network drive then it is over and the 3B+ freezes overnight.

I am honestly sick of this issue. This just can't be that after 3 months this is not fixed yet...
Sometimes, bugs are just REALLY difficult to fix. Simply as that. I have a laptop with a Intel Wireless chip in. It took Intel (Yes Intel, with all their thousands of engineers), 18 MONTHS to get that wireless chip driver stable, and tbh, I still don;t think it's particular good.Since the 3B+ was launched we have had to deal with some really quite complex issues, most of which were caused by other peoples chips and software, none of which came up in pre release testing. Annoying, but not uncommon with a new release.

I believe your fault is not the one mainly being talked about in this thread, but possibly related the network driver TCP segmentation offload issue. Have you tried turning that off (as described in the ethernet/NTFS problems thread)?
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
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wybielacz
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:37 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi 3 B+ lockups

Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:01 pm

jamesh wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:49 pm
Sometimes, bugs are just REALLY difficult to fix. Simply as that. I have a laptop with a Intel Wireless chip in. It took Intel (Yes Intel, with all their thousands of engineers), 18 MONTHS to get that wireless chip driver stable, and tbh, I still don;t think it's particular good.Since the 3B+ was launched we have had to deal with some really quite complex issues, most of which were caused by other peoples chips and software, none of which came up in pre release testing. Annoying, but not uncommon with a new release.

I believe your fault is not the one mainly being talked about in this thread, but possibly related the network driver TCP segmentation offload issue. Have you tried turning that off (as described in the ethernet/NTFS problems thread)?

Yes, i did. I already wrote that on the previous page.

Ethernet is always killing my 3B+ when i mount a network drive, the commands didn't help. WiFi works fine and the 3B+ runs stable without any crashes, but i bought the 3B+ specially because of the faster ethernet so this is not acceptable for me...

jahboater
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Re: Raspberry Pi 3 B+ lockups

Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:13 pm

wybielacz wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:01 pm
Ethernet is always killing my 3B+ when i mount a network drive, the commands didn't help. WiFi works fine and the 3B+ runs stable without any crashes, but i bought the 3B+ specially because of the faster ethernet so this is not acceptable for me...
Does it work with a USB GiGe adaptor?
Like this?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Anker-AK-A7611 ... b+ethernet

Should also give slightly faster throughput - around 320 Mbits/sec compared to the 247 Mbits/sec for the built-in one (measured with iperf).

wybielacz
Posts: 29
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Re: Raspberry Pi 3 B+ lockups

Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:16 pm

jahboater wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:13 pm
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Anker-AK-A7611 ... b+ethernet

Should also give slightly faster throughput - around 320 Mbits/sec compared to the 247 Mbits/sec for the built-in one (measured with iperf).
I didn't test it but i am pretty sure it will work. I don't want to waste any more money on this. My 3B+ has Gigabit ethernet so what is the point buying an external one? They just need to finally fix it, i already lost so much time and money because of this crap.

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