secretreeve
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.....users (re:where to start learning C, C++)

Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:42 pm

so the foundation wanted to get to build a community ready for the educational release.

fair enough.

i've NEVER programmed before and posted at 3:40pm asking for tutorials/reading material on where to start with C or C+.

well, so far, no posts.

so if the community so far is so concerned with helping the foundation, how about someone starts posting on the thread and helping out someone who has never programmed before?

i mean, isnt that the point of all this? getting kids (and others) into programming?

well how many of them will have never programmed when the educational release hits schools?

wheres the help for them if no one will even help somene who's been on the forums for a while?!

i mean come on people! this is kind of going against what the foundation wanted if everyones to concerned with thier own and other peoples projects that they ignore the principle in which the foundation was...well founded!

PaulCheffus
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Re: .....users

Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:47 pm

Procrastination - The Thief of Time.

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grumpyoldgit
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Re: .....users

Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:48 pm

Err. just because someone hasn't immediately jumped to attention and fallen at your feet, is not a valid reason to start throwing your toys out of the pram.

secretreeve
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Re: .....users

Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:54 pm

grumpyoldgit wrote:Err. just because someone hasn't immediately jumped to attention and fallen at your feet, is not a valid reason to start throwing your toys out of the pram.
it is when you consider 60+ views and several hours, 7+ hours. which given the number of community members around here is pleanty of time.

i've just now got a single reply.

so how bout you throw your toys else where because im pointing out something that the foundation should consider looking into!

i.e PROMOTE the help of people who have never programmed

secretreeve
Posts: 330
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Re: .....users

Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:55 pm

PaulCheffus wrote:Hi

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=C+programming

Cheers

Paul
yeah because i havent already done that?!

dont think im some idiot, how about you take a look at the thread and post something helpful instead of trolling bull!

most of the stuff on google is NOT for beginners and is over complicated, hence asking here, where people who have learnt this stuff can post to how/where they learnt

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grumpyoldgit
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Re: .....users

Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:59 pm

I can see that we are going to get on just tickety boo.

PaulCheffus
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Re: .....users

Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:03 pm

secretreeve wrote:
PaulCheffus wrote:Hi

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=C+programming

Cheers

Paul
yeah because i havent already done that?!

dont think im some idiot, how about you take a look at the thread and post something helpful instead of trolling bull!

most of the stuff on google is NOT for beginners and is over complicated, hence asking here, where people who have learnt this stuff can post to how/where they learnt
Hi

If perhaps you had put a little more information on your post you might have got a different response. I learnt C and C++ by reading books, going to night school and experimenting. Good luck with your programming but with that attitude I for one won't be helping.

Cheers

Paul
Procrastination - The Thief of Time.

secretreeve
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Re: .....users

Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:06 pm

more detail?

did you even read my posts?

i think not, theres pleanty of information, including a project i have in mind.

frankly i can do without the help of trolls, you post some "let me google that for you" link assuming that it wasnt the first thing i did and give me grief over it.

secretreeve
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Re: .....users

Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:10 pm

grumpyoldgit wrote:I can see that we are going to get on just tickety boo.

hehe, this is not the first time we have butted heads, but we get on okay for the most part. mostly because i think you can see other peoples points of view. especialy in the sence that i've been patient and waited a fair few hours and have realised this could be a problem in the sence that kids who come here looking for help may not be so patient and there does seem to be a lack of willing help on the matter.

PaulCheffus
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Location: Lincolnshire UK

Re: .....users

Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:11 pm

secretreeve wrote:more detail?

did you even read my posts?

i think not, theres pleanty of information, including a project i have in mind.

frankly i can do without the help of trolls, you post some "let me google that for you" link assuming that it wasnt the first thing i did and give me grief over it.
Hi

If perhaps you had said I have had a look at google and nothing is suitable then I wouldn't have suggested it. In your other post someone has suggested two suitable links that you say are too complicated. I looked at the second link which looks perfectly fine to me and if you think it is too complicated then C is not for you. I am not a troll and have 20 years C and C++ experience.

Cheers

Paul
Procrastination - The Thief of Time.

secretreeve
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Re: .....users

Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:15 pm

PaulCheffus wrote:I am not a troll and have 20 years C and C++ experience.

Cheers

Paul
very well on the troll part, benefit of the doubt kicking in.

as for the C+ you do seem right in that its not for me. but the second link would seem fine to you because you have 20 years of experience.

to me its like being hit in the face via a sledge hammer and being told to walk in a straight line. something thats not gunna happen.

PaulCheffus
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Re: .....users

Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:24 pm

secretreeve wrote:
PaulCheffus wrote:I am not a troll and have 20 years C and C++ experience.

Cheers

Paul
very well on the troll part, benefit of the doubt kicking in.

as for the C+ you do seem right in that its not for me. but the second link would seem fine to you because you have 20 years of experience.

to me its like being hit in the face via a sledge hammer and being told to walk in a straight line. something thats not gunna happen.
Hi

Yep I felt much the same way 20 years ago.

Small steps is the answer. The first thing I ever learnt was how to write the Hello World program (put simply output the two words to the screen). Any programming language if you are not used to it will look daunting to start with.

Cheers

Paul
Procrastination - The Thief of Time.

secretreeve
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Re: .....users

Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:26 pm

well if you can recomend the simplist available on the Pi it would be a start

PaulCheffus
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Re: .....users

Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:31 pm

secretreeve wrote:well if you can recomend the simplist available on the Pi it would be a start
Hi

Unfortunately I can't as I don't have one yet so I am not sure what is available other than C and Python.

Cheers

Paul
Procrastination - The Thief of Time.

jamesh
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Re: .....users

Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:31 pm

Secretreeve. Calm down.

I'm not at all impressed with the way you have posted in this thread. It's been rude and unnecessarily abrupt. Keep it polite or you will disappear.

You should NOT expect people to post to question you ask, especially within a couple of hours, and especially when all they can reply with will be links to stuff you could have searched yourself. Impatience gets you nowhere, neither does posting like you have been doing here.

There are many forums and sites on the internet that provide C and C++ tutorials. Although I would say, it might be worth starting off with Python - it's easier than C.
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jamesh
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Re: .....users

Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:35 pm

secretreeve wrote:
grumpyoldgit wrote:Err. just because someone hasn't immediately jumped to attention and fallen at your feet, is not a valid reason to start throwing your toys out of the pram.
it is when you consider 60+ views and several hours, 7+ hours. which given the number of community members around here is pleanty of time.

i've just now got a single reply.

so how bout you throw your toys else where because im pointing out something that the foundation should consider looking into!

i.e PROMOTE the help of people who have never programmed
Actually, just reread this post. Would you be so kind as to suggest how the Foundation MAKES people reply to other people posts?

Have you considered that those 60+ views may be from people who actually cannot help you?
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tufty
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Re: .....users

Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:36 pm

I think I can see someone who needs to spend some quality time with befunge.

secretreeve
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Re: .....users

Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:38 pm

jamesh wrote:Secretreeve. Calm down.

I'm not at all impressed with the way you have posted in this thread. It's been rude and unnecessarily abrupt. Keep it polite or you will disappear.

You should NOT expect people to post to question you ask, especially within a couple of hours, and especially when all they can reply with will be links to stuff you could have searched yourself. Impatience gets you nowhere, neither does posting like you have been doing here.

There are many forums and sites on the internet that provide C and C++ tutorials. Although I would say, it might be worth starting off with Python - it's easier than C.

frankly im not impressed with your attitude much either, you forget that text on a web page can be read in many different ways, as a moderator you should be well aware of that. like you most likely read this as being rude or aggresive when its meant to be taken as constructive critisms. and there will be far worse posts in the future, not from myself, but from newer members (or those yet to join)

i've moderated forums and chat rooms and have always remembered text has no tone and taken in different ways.

sorry if you dont like the fact that im willing to step up and remind moderators of that fact once in a while. and threatening a ban is uncalled for and jumping the gun.

and FYI it wasnt "a couple of hours" since when has 7 hours translated into a couple of hours?

how can the foundation promote getting thier members to help those not new to programming? well thats for them to work out. it is thier intention that the community helps others

secretreeve
Posts: 330
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Re: .....users

Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:39 pm

PaulCheffus wrote:
secretreeve wrote:well if you can recomend the simplist available on the Pi it would be a start
Hi

Unfortunately I can't as I don't have one yet so I am not sure what is available other than C and Python.

Cheers

Paul
hmm, fair enough. spose i'll look into python. was put off because of the "get it done fast but not properly" stigma around it. still, might be worth looking into

jamesh
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Re: .....users

Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:43 pm

secretreeve wrote:
jamesh wrote:Secretreeve. Calm down.

I'm not at all impressed with the way you have posted in this thread. It's been rude and unnecessarily abrupt. Keep it polite or you will disappear.

You should NOT expect people to post to question you ask, especially within a couple of hours, and especially when all they can reply with will be links to stuff you could have searched yourself. Impatience gets you nowhere, neither does posting like you have been doing here.

There are many forums and sites on the internet that provide C and C++ tutorials. Although I would say, it might be worth starting off with Python - it's easier than C.

frankly im not impressed with your attitude much either, you forget that text on a web page can be read in many different ways, as a moderator you should be well aware of that. like you most likely read this as being rude or aggresive when its meant to be taken as constructive critisms. and there will be far worse posts in the future, not from myself, but from newer members (or those yet to join)

i've moderated forums and chat rooms and have always remembered text has no tone and taken in different ways.

sorry if you dont like the fact that im willing to step up and remind moderators of that fact once in a while. and threatening a ban is uncalled for and jumping the gun.

and FYI it wasnt "a couple of hours" since when has 7 hours translated into a couple of hours?

how can the foundation promote getting thier members to help those not new to programming? well thats for them to work out. it is thier intention that the community helps others
Last chance. One more even slightly off colour comment and you are out of here. I read your posts as rude and aggressive because, frankly, they are.
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mahjongg
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Re: .....users (re:where to start learning C, C++)

Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:47 pm

First, your topic title wasn't "descriptive of the topic", so I've changed it for you. :mrgreen:
Secondly, the RPI is for teaching the beginnings of programming to school kids.
I would assume that C and certainly C++ aren't ideal languages for that.

That said, if you want to learn C, there is just one book I can recommend, the original "C bible" from kernigan and ritchie, "The C Programming Language".
see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_C_Programming_Language

For C++ the equivalent would be "The C++ Programming Language" by Bjarne Stroustrup.
See: "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_C%2B%2 ... g_Language"

however C++ is much more split into many "dialects", so the latter book is less a "bible", more a book about the core concepts. Many "Visual" versions each can behave a little different, so in that case I would recommend learning "C++Builder" (originally from Borland.
See: http://www.embarcadero.com/products/cbuilder
But obviously if you want to go the FOSS route, you need to use a GCC compiler version.

secretreeve
Posts: 330
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Re: .....users (re:where to start learning C, C++)

Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:51 pm

mahjongg wrote:First, your topic title wasn't "descriptive of the topic", so I've changed it for you. :mrgreen:
Secondly, the RPI is for teaching the beginnings of programming to school kids.
I would assume that C and certainly C++ aren't ideal languages for that.

That said, if you want to learn C, there is just one book I can recommend, the original "C bible" from kernigan and ritchie, "The C Programming Language".
see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_C_Programming_Language

For C++ the equivalent would be "The C++ Programming Language" by Bjarne Stroustrup.
See: "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_C%2B%2 ... g_Language"

however C++ is much more split into many "dialects", so the latter book is less a "bible", more a book about the core concepts. Many "Visual" versions each can behave a little different, so in that case I would recommend learning "C++Builder" (originally from Borland.
See: http://www.embarcadero.com/products/cbuilder
But obviously if you want to go the FOSS route, you need to use a GCC compiler version.
see now thats the sorta stuff. i will definatly look into these and see if they're any easier for me to wrap my head around.

although, 1 big question....whats FOSS? lol

jamesh
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Re: .....users (re:where to start learning C, C++)

Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:55 pm

I wouldn't learn C from the K&R book...lots of bugs in the examples and horrible style conventions.

http://c.learncodethehardway.org/book/l ... ych55.html
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secretreeve
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Re: .....users (re:where to start learning C, C++)

Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:56 pm

seems like i should be steering clear of C/C+ until i get a bit more...."adapt" at programming.

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mahjongg
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Re: .....users (re:where to start learning C, C++)

Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:02 pm

FOSS = Free And Open-Source Software, like GNU/Linux.

see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOSS

Ill copy my post to your original post, on the off chance this topic will be deleted. :geek:
I wouldn't learn C from the K&R book...lots of bugs in the examples and horrible style conventions.
Perhaps, but its still the canonical source. I learned C from it, a few years after it was published somewhere in 1980 or 1981. By the year 2012 there may be many more, and better books, but K&R is still "the BIBLE"! For more up to date books, I can recommend any of the "dummies".
seems like i should be steering clear of C/C+ until i get a bit more...."adapt" at programming.
Yes, and you could do worse than learning Python by my fellow countryman Guido van Rossum.
see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Python_(pr ... _language)

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