memjr
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Re: Is the raspberry foundation flipping blue?

Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:31 pm

rin67630 wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 2:07 pm
PiGraham wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:06 pm
Adding Wi-Fi & BLE would probably have doubled the cost
An ESP board has WiFI and costs LESS.
Then use them instead of bitching about something else that does not have it and costs more.

BMS Doug
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Re: Is the raspberry foundation flipping blue?

Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:05 pm

memjr wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:29 pm
I keep reading comments like these and it honestly both makes me laugh and annoys me to no end at the same time.

It is but ONE out of thousands of MCUs you can choose from, you need to pick the one that gives you the most bang for your buck/needs.
Additionally one wonders exactly how long it will be before someone releases their own RP2040 board which does have wifi / buetooth / LoRa / AJE (a Jet Engine)
Maybe they should get to grips with the chip features now, to get a headstart for the eventual board of their dreams.

Or reject it out of hand, thats what the cool kids do.
Doug.
Building Management Systems Engineer.

aleopardstail
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Re: Is the raspberry foundation flipping blue?

Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:16 pm

apparently the Arduino lot have a board with WiFi coming.

personally there are situations where wifi/bluetooth etc are specifically *not* wanted, e.g. situations where cyber security matters or where certification of such systems will be a lot harder for EMC type reasons or because you are working on safety critical systems.

I know I would find it a lot easier to get a device with one of these Pico boards used where I work that say an ESP8266 based board with WiFi on it

jamesh
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Re: Is the raspberry foundation flipping blue?

Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:31 pm

The vast majority of industrial use cases do not need Wifi. It's only the IoT stuff and similar that might need it really. And yes, Arduino will ahve something very soon.

Please remember this is our FIRST silicon product, we need to start somewhere, and this is where we have started. We believe the market is big enough to want this device as is, it has some USP's that some people will find very useful.
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aleopardstail
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Re: Is the raspberry foundation flipping blue?

Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:44 pm

jamesh wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:31 pm
The vast majority of industrial use cases do not need Wifi. It's only the IoT stuff and similar that might need it really. And yes, Arduino will ahve something very soon.

Please remember this is our FIRST silicon product, we need to start somewhere, and this is where we have started. We believe the market is big enough to want this device as is, it has some USP's that some people will find very useful.
t be honest I find product #1 being what amounts to a bare bones breakout board is perfect, and as for the Internet of Insecure Things... as noted before simply having that ability on board presents a risk in many situations that will make adoption harder - especially when such is not hard to add to a device with this many pins, and likely easier to add such that it gets a better antenna as well

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Is the raspberry foundation flipping blue?

Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:22 pm

jamesh wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:31 pm
The vast majority of industrial use cases do not need Wifi. It's only the IoT stuff and similar that might need it really. And yes, Arduino will ahve something very soon.

Please remember this is our FIRST silicon product, we need to start somewhere, and this is where we have started. We believe the market is big enough to want this device as is, it has some USP's that some people will find very useful.
Possibly worth pointing out that it took until the Pi3B before "main line" Pis had WiFi, and that the first iteration of Pi0 didn't have it, either.

cleverca22
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Re: Is the raspberry foundation flipping blue?

Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:45 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:22 pm
Possibly worth pointing out that it took until the Pi3B before "main line" Pis had WiFi, and that the first iteration of Pi0 didn't have it, either.
i'm thinking that was mostly just a choice on the pricing front

the roku2 was a bcm2835 (pi0/pi1) chip, with wifi, an IR receiver, the same usb ethernet, and onboard nand flash
and it had come out before the pi1 did, so it was definitely known how to do it

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rin67630
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Re: Is the raspberry foundation flipping blue?

Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:09 pm

aleopardstail wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:44 pm
" for the Internet of Insecure Things... "
Don't panic.
Broad market consumer IOT devices might be insecure, since millions of them are in the wild running a well known standard program.

What yo may tinker in your corner and possibly even be copied a hundred times is a complete different picture, far from being an interesting target for hackers.
And since you are the guy who programmed them, you can overwrite them as well.

memjr
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Re: Is the raspberry foundation flipping blue?

Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:39 pm

rin67630 wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:09 pm
aleopardstail wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:44 pm
" for the Internet of Insecure Things... "
Don't panic.
Broad market consumer IOT devices might be insecure, since millions of them are in the wild running a well known standard program.

What yo may tinker in your corner and possibly even be copied a hundred times is a complete different picture, far from being an interesting target for hackers.
And since you are the guy who programmed them, you can overwrite them as well.
"Hackers" is the key word in this entire conversation. The very bunch that took cheap non-wifi systems and hacked it all together with cheap wifi systems.

The pico is a cheap breakout board with the new mcu. Stick that together with a wireless comm of your choosing and you have a cheap solution for either industrial or personal uses. In fact you don't even need to use the pico board at all if what you want is the MCUs functionality.

LimboMan
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Re: Is the raspberry foundation flipping blue?

Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:45 pm

runs on 128k of RAM: http://retrobsd.org/wiki/doku.php/start

i'm curious if it would run uclinux https://elinux.org/System_Size#uClinux though it might be slow running in emulation mode without Cortex M4 architectur

for low power, could one add FRAM via SPI and CBRAM for storage ?

ConfuSomu
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Re: Is the raspberry foundation flipping blue?

Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:06 am

LimboMan wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:45 pm
runs on 128k of RAM: http://retrobsd.org/wiki/doku.php/start
This could be interesting to run on a Pico with USB keyboard input and a display driven via PIO. Compiling software on an MCU sounds fun.
If you are low on RAM, make sure to use zram! ;)
I found & use this zram setup script: https://github.com/novaspirit/rpi_zram
A post about zram: t=207304
Make sure to disable dphys-swapfile and mount the tmp folders in RAM. Also learn about SysRq!

LimboMan
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Re: Is the raspberry foundation flipping blue?

Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:18 am

ConfuSomu wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:06 am
LimboMan wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:45 pm
runs on 128k of RAM: http://retrobsd.org/wiki/doku.php/start
This could be interesting to run on a Pico with USB keyboard input and a display driven via PIO. Compiling software on an MCU sounds fun.
Yes, I am trying to do this with an ARM Cortex M4F https://ambiq.com/apollo4/

I'm also generally curious whether https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kexec could be used to swap out software/OS in realtime without rebooting and temporally run different drivers/apps on a MCU since there is so little space.
Last edited by LimboMan on Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

hippy
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Location: UK

Re: Is the raspberry foundation flipping blue?

Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:24 am

memjr wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:39 pm
The pico is a cheap breakout board with the new mcu. Stick that together with a wireless comm of your choosing and you have a cheap solution for either industrial or personal uses.
A very cheap board and quite incredible for what it is. I would rather have a cheap board I can add WiFi, Bluetooth, whatever, to than a more expensive board with things I don't need.

In the fullness of time there might be a Pico+ board with more on it, but there may not be any need. There are plenty of others already offering that kind of thing and I guess that product range will expand.

LimboMan
Posts: 73
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Re: Is the raspberry foundation flipping blue?

Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:50 am

hippy wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:24 am
memjr wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:39 pm
The pico is a cheap breakout board with the new mcu. Stick that together with a wireless comm of your choosing and you have a cheap solution for either industrial or personal uses.
A very cheap board and quite incredible for what it is. I would rather have a cheap board I can add WiFi, Bluetooth, whatever, to than a more expensive board with things I don't need.

In the fullness of time there might be a Pico+ board with more on it, but there may not be any need. There are plenty of others already offering that kind of thing and I guess that product range will expand.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6LoWPAN seems like a better fit for the Pico+ due to the power consumptioon, but internet over bluetooth could work too. 2mbps is fast enough for me. There are also low power wifi modules, like https://www.seeedstudio.com/blog/2020/0 ... -solution/

jamesh
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Re: Is the raspberry foundation flipping blue?

Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:05 am

LoRA has been seen working - Dave Akerman uses a Pico for that. I did buy a couple of modules so I could write some examples, but ran out of time.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
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LimboMan
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Re: Is the raspberry foundation flipping blue?

Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:40 pm

jamesh wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:05 am
LoRA has been seen working - Dave Akerman uses a Pico for that. I did buy a couple of modules so I could write some examples, but ran out of time.
Wow, LoRA looks great. There is another thread that was recently made on the pico and wifi viewtopic.php?f=144&t=300153 - hard to keep track sometimes but nonetheless great info!

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