jamesh
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:53 am

thatchunkylad198966 wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:46 am
Nice!
So basically, any RPI4 can handle 1.8ghz if they've got a heatsink, yes? :mrgreen:
No, the Pi4 is rated to 1500. Anything more than that is an overclock and not guaranteed.
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:55 am

jamesh wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:53 am
thatchunkylad198966 wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:46 am
Nice!
So basically, any RPI4 can handle 1.8ghz if they've got a heatsink, yes? :mrgreen:
No, the Pi4 is rated to 1500. Anything more than that is an overclock and not guaranteed.
Okay, SO I'm confused.
I was reading up on the specs and it says it's an RPI4, with a keyboard and heatsink. though just clocked to 1.8ghz. :?

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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:56 am

.
Great product at a reasonable price.

Not great seeing all the usual doom mongers dissing this product.

Analog Audio and Composite Output not needed it is a "Desktop Computer" and considering how cheap TVs are Audio over HDMi is sufficient.


Anyone who feels RPT have made a substandard product because of this or that feature is or is not included, go out and design / market an alternative product and come back here when you have made a profit.
The information is out there....you just have to let it in.

My other Linux machines are a ChromeBox & Intel CoreDuo Desktop

lb
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:57 am

The new revision of the SoC sounds interesting. I'm curious, has anyone done detailed power consumption tests yet? I couldn't find anything.

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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:01 am

lb wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:57 am
The new revision of the SoC sounds interesting. I'm curious, has anyone done detailed power consumption tests yet? I couldn't find anything.
There's a teardown link:

https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2020/ ... and-review

But unsure if it states power consumption. I'd guess it's a little more, though.

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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:02 am

jamesh wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:52 am
As per the article, the Pi400 defaults to 1800. You can overclock it.
See the Toms Hardware review. They overclocked it to 2.2GHz and remarkably it remained cool, with only a modest temperature rise compared to the stock speed. It seems like the built-in heatsink is very effective.

Looking forward to when the Pi4 8GB gets the C0 stepping.
Pi4 8GB (Raspberry Pi OS 64-bit), Pi4 4GB, Pi4 2GB, Pi1 Rev 1 256MB, Pi Zero

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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:04 am

thatchunkylad198966 wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:55 am
jamesh wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:53 am
thatchunkylad198966 wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:46 am
Nice!
So basically, any RPI4 can handle 1.8ghz if they've got a heatsink, yes? :mrgreen:
No, the Pi4 is rated to 1500. Anything more than that is an overclock and not guaranteed.
Okay, SO I'm confused.
I was reading up on the specs and it says it's an RPI4, with a keyboard and heatsink. though just clocked to 1.8ghz. :?

Raspberry Pi 400: the $70 desktop PC

https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/raspbe ... esktop-pc/


The only commonality is the SoC which has been, due to better heat dissipation via the heat sink, can run at a higher clock speed.

The RPi 4B or CM4 do not have a Official Heat Sink therefore RPT have kept the clock speed lower as that is the optimum without Heat Sink.
The information is out there....you just have to let it in.

My other Linux machines are a ChromeBox & Intel CoreDuo Desktop

smartroad
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:05 am

Love this! Reminds me of the old 80s and 90s home computers. Although I wish it had taken the opportunity to use full HDMI as there seems to be space for it.

What about other colours going forward? :D

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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:06 am

fruitoftheloom wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:04 am
thatchunkylad198966 wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:55 am
jamesh wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:53 am


No, the Pi4 is rated to 1500. Anything more than that is an overclock and not guaranteed.
Okay, SO I'm confused.
I was reading up on the specs and it says it's an RPI4, with a keyboard and heatsink. though just clocked to 1.8ghz. :?

Raspberry Pi 400: the $70 desktop PC

https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/raspbe ... esktop-pc/


The only commonality is the SoC which has been, due to better heat dissipation via the heat sink, can run at a higher clock speed.

The RPi 4B or CM4 do not have a Official Heat Sink therefore RPT have kept the clock speed lower as that is the optimum without Heat Sink.
Sure, so that goes back to my original question though. an RPI4 with a heatsink should be able to handle 1.8ghz without a worry.

Thanks for the link.

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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:06 am

thatchunkylad198966 wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:01 am
lb wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:57 am
The new revision of the SoC sounds interesting. I'm curious, has anyone done detailed power consumption tests yet? I couldn't find anything.
There's a teardown link:

https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2020/ ... and-review

But unsure if it states power consumption. I'd guess it's a little more, though.
Should be same or less with the extra power domain clock gating on the C0 stepping, and an upgraded power supply, but I've not seen any results yet.
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:07 am

smartroad wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:05 am
What about other colours going forward? :D
Earlier post in this thread says that black is coming.

jamesh
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:08 am

thatchunkylad198966 wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:06 am
fruitoftheloom wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:04 am
thatchunkylad198966 wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:55 am


Okay, SO I'm confused.
I was reading up on the specs and it says it's an RPI4, with a keyboard and heatsink. though just clocked to 1.8ghz. :?

Raspberry Pi 400: the $70 desktop PC

https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/raspbe ... esktop-pc/


The only commonality is the SoC which has been, due to better heat dissipation via the heat sink, can run at a higher clock speed.

The RPi 4B or CM4 do not have a Official Heat Sink therefore RPT have kept the clock speed lower as that is the optimum without Heat Sink.
Sure, so that goes back to my original question though. an RPI4 with a heatsink should be able to handle 1.8ghz without a worry.

Thanks for the link.
As above, the Pi4 is qualified to 1500. That's what you buy. You can overclock them, you don't need a heatsink, but that will prevent throttling if loaded. Whether it will reach 1800? Who knows. Depends on the SoC.
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:13 am

jamesh wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:13 am
Why are people asking questions that seem to be asking to use the Pi 400 in a way that its really not intended to be used? This is a desktop version of the Pi4. That is the target market. If you want power over GPIO, or OTG boot or the PMIC ADC why not use the Pi4? There are trade offs, pick the right tool for the job!
That's your POV, but what is the market for this nice little computer keyboard: Education as this was done in the 80's? Then, A POE switch feeding networking+power to the whole classroom would make sense. As well as an audio jack.

Other markets may be hobbyists, but they will regret a CM4 was not used: More future-proof (if next CM share the same format), possible options for a PCIe storage (as uSD is the main drawback for basic computing on PI's). A base version may not change target price so much I presume?

So, what do you mean as "intended use"?

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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:14 am

thatchunkylad198966 wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:06 am
Sure, so that goes back to my original question though. an RPI4 with a heatsink should be able to handle 1.8ghz without a worry.
Why not just try it?
It costs nothing and will not hurt the Pi.
You will likely need over_voltage=2 for 1.8GHz
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:15 am

So who's going to make/create some 'Plus 1' or similar expansion format to slot into the back of the Pi400 gpio....

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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:17 am

LTolledo wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:29 am
seem no analog audio port.... me better devise ways of extracting audio via I2S adapters....

don't have it yet but my DIY senses are already "tingling".... :mrgreen:
I'm sure someone is already creating a sort of horizontal HAT structure that allows you to daisy chain audio and I2C peripherals out the back :D

And seems to be the biggest Pi announcement in years - constant Server Error messages due to too many people :-)

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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:19 am

JamesH - what's the type code that is going to be used for this model (i.e. the one in the model's revision code)?

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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:19 am

MikeDB wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:17 am
LTolledo wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:29 am
seem no analog audio port.... me better devise ways of extracting audio via I2S adapters....

don't have it yet but my DIY senses are already "tingling".... :mrgreen:
I'm sure someone is already creating a sort of horizontal HAT structure that allows you to daisy chain audio and I2C peripherals out the back :D

And seems to be the biggest Pi announcement in years - constant Server Error messages due to too many people :-)
No, there is a massive worldwide DDoS going on at the moment, and we are collateral damage, we have served up 90 million requests this morning, not all down to the launch.
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:23 am

The information is out there....you just have to let it in.

My other Linux machines are a ChromeBox & Intel CoreDuo Desktop

jamesh
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:23 am

GaryH1 wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:19 am
JamesH - what's the type code that is going to be used for this model (i.e. the one in the model's revision code)?
13, the docs have been updated.
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:23 am

fruitoftheloom wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:56 am
.....and considering how cheap TVs are Audio over HDMi is sufficient.
TVs... yes.... but not all HDMI monitors are "created equal" (i.e. some have no built in speakers) ;)
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:24 am

jamesh wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:13 am
Why are people asking questions that seem to be asking to use the Pi 400 in a way that its really not intended to be used?
Because, when there isn't an actual Pi which is a perfect fit for what people want, they will look at the entire range to figure out which could be best made to converge with what they do want.

Seems reasonable to me - that was my first thought too; how well can it be adapted to be what I want ?
Last edited by hippy on Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:29 am

lost wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:13 am
jamesh wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:13 am
Why are people asking questions that seem to be asking to use the Pi 400 in a way that its really not intended to be used? This is a desktop version of the Pi4. That is the target market. If you want power over GPIO, or OTG boot or the PMIC ADC why not use the Pi4? There are trade offs, pick the right tool for the job!
That's your POV, but what is the market for this nice little computer keyboard: Education as this was done in the 80's? Then, A POE switch feeding networking+power to the whole classroom would make sense. As well as an audio jack.

Other markets may be hobbyists, but they will regret a CM4 was not used: More future-proof (if next CM share the same format), possible options for a PCIe storage (as uSD is the main drawback for basic computing on PI's). A base version may not change target price so much I presume?

So, what do you mean as "intended use"?
Building using a CM4 is too expensive. A custom board is cheaper and enables better thermals given size constraints.
PoE , no transformer small enough to fit in the case.(Note, I never mentioned PoE in my post)
Audio jack - no room on back of case (also not mentioned in my post)

Intended use? Take you pick. First time Pi users, people who need a cheap PC, commercial sites where twin monitor setup are used (e.g. call
centres, but clearly vast prospects elsewhere as well), education of course, third world. It's endless. Anywhere you need a cheap PC.

Of course, if it doesn't suit your use case, that's fine, use something else.
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:34 am

hippy wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:24 am
It's very confusing that the official published specification is "Broadcom BCM2711 quad-core Cortex-A72 (ARM v8) 64-bit SoC @ 1.8GHz".

Promoting it with a clock rating which is purely aspirational, not guaranteed, will quite possibly provoke the same backlash and negativity as the original 4B not being fully USB-C compliant did. Some might even claim it's "false advertising".
Why is stating that the Pi400 runs at 1800, which it does, aspirational? Of course it's guaranteed!

The Pi4 is guaranteed at 1500.

I think you have got hold of entirely the wrong end of the stick here.
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Re: The Raspberry Pi 400 thread!

Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:36 am

hippy wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:24 am
Some might even claim it's "false advertising".
They would be wrong.

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