jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 29352
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Will there be a Pi 800 ?

Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:57 pm

thagrol wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:43 pm
ejolson wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:28 pm
fruitoftheloom wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:57 pm

ALL Official Microsoft ARM Desktop Operating System Support over the last decade or so has been in conjunction with Qualcomm SoCs.

The only deviation to support the Broadcom BCM2837 ARM SoC was the short lived Windows 10 IoT Core.
That's a good point. Windows 11 for the Pi might help Qualcomm fight those lawsuits about unfair trade practices.
I thought it was Broadcom that just got their wrist slapped: https://www.cfo.com/regulation/2021/07/ ... mpetition/
Different topic altogether!

I've always wondered why MS were fixated on Qualcomm devices, and I still wonder!

MS will do what they want to do, if that means Windows 11 on Pi, then that's great, it's another string to the Pi bow. If we sell a load more Pi's because of it, then that means more profits pushed back in to new products.

Oh, and we don't need any "I won't touch Windows with a bargepole" type posts please. Nobody is forcing anyone to use anything.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Working in the Applications Team.

bls
Posts: 1691
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:25 pm
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Will there be a Pi 800 ?

Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:12 pm

Not to be a nay-sayer, but it's not clear to me that MSFT would opt to support Win11 on the Pi, regardless of the model, unless it met their new requirements for a secure platform.

They are moving strongly in the direction of having Windows be MORE secure, why would they want to support Win11 on a platform that is missing at least one key architectural element (the TPM) of that more secure platform, especially since it would weaken their position for not supporting older x86 systems missing it as well.

Of course, if MSFT and RPF worked together to build a more secure Pi platform, that would be a completely different story...
Pi tools:
Quickly and easily build customized-just-for-you SSDs/SD Cards: https://github.com/gitbls/sdm
Easily run and manage your network's DHCP/DNS servers on a Pi: https://github.com/gitbls/ndm
Easy and secure strongSwan VPN installer/manager: https://github.com/gitbls/pistrong
Lightweight Virtual VNC Config: https://github.com/gitbls/RPiVNCHowTo

User avatar
HermannSW
Posts: 4544
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:09 pm
Location: Eberbach, Germany
Contact: Website Twitter YouTube

Re: Will there be a Pi 800 ?

Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:38 pm

I never had to deal with physical Windows laptop for now 14 years, and that is good (for me). Only for few applications in day job I have to rdesktop into some virtual Windows boxes (from my Linux laptop).

Now that Windows has been discussed so extensively -- I never used any MacOS computer, but since Apply moves now to their own Arm chips, would it be theoretically possible to run MacOS (or however Apple laptop OS is named) on a Pi400 or Pi4B-8GB?
https://stamm-wilbrandt.de/2wheel_balancing_robot
https://stamm-wilbrandt.de/en#raspcatbot
https://github.com/Hermann-SW/Raspberry_v1_camera_global_external_shutter
https://github.com/Hermann-SW/raspiraw
https://stamm-wilbrandt.de/en/Raspberry_camera.html

fruitoftheloom
Posts: 27226
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:40 pm

Re: Will there be a Pi 800 ?

Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:44 pm

HermannSW wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:38 pm
I never had to deal with physical Windows laptop for now 14 years, and that is good (for me). Only for few applications in day job I have to rdesktop into some virtual Windows boxes (from my Linux laptop).

Now that Windows has been discussed so extensively -- I never used any MacOS computer, but since Apply moves now to their own Arm chips, would it be theoretically possible to run MacOS (or however Apple laptop OS is named) on a Pi400 or Pi4B-8GB?

Previous discussion here :lol:

viewtopic.php?f=62&t=291508
Take what I advise as advice not the utopian holy grail, and it is gratis !!

ejolson
Posts: 8120
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:47 am

Re: Will there be a Pi 800 ?

Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:54 pm

HermannSW wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:38 pm
I never had to deal with physical Windows laptop for now 14 years, and that is good (for me). Only for few applications in day job I have to rdesktop into some virtual Windows boxes (from my Linux laptop).

Now that Windows has been discussed so extensively -- I never used any MacOS computer, but since Apply moves now to their own Arm chips, would it be theoretically possible to run MacOS (or however Apple laptop OS is named) on a Pi400 or Pi4B-8GB?
The main difficulty with MacOS is Apple has an established long tradition of not selling software that runs on hardware made by other manufacturers. Microsoft, on the other hand, made a fortune writing programs that run on computers made by other companies.

Of course everything can change in the blink of an eye, like when IBM became the main supplier of enterprise Linux.

User avatar
thagrol
Posts: 5575
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:41 pm
Location: Darkest Somerset, UK
Contact: Website

Re: Will there be a Pi 800 ?

Sat Jul 10, 2021 8:43 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:53 pm
Forgot to add the License Cost for WoA11.

To date WoA has only been offered as a pre-installed Stable Release on Hardware.

Therefore Raspberry Pi 4B / 400 could see a sizable price increase if Microsoft decide to Officially Support.
That doesn't mean it would be the same on Pi. IIRC a home license for Win10 runs about $150. I'd expect Win11 to be about the same.
The biggest question is how to lock the install to a specific machine.
AIUI, they use a hardware hash at the moment for self installs on x86. I think, for OEMs, they mandate a TPM and store a key in that (I could easily be wrong here though).

I can see a couple of ways they could do it: an MS edition PI with an onboard secure key of some type, an add on hardware key (USB or SPI), or an alwayy online reqiurement (that appears to be almost the case with Win11 anyway) verified against an MS account and a hardware hash* that includes the serial number.

Or all of the above.

My guess is that MS won't bother. I also suspect that the Qualcom thing is a hangover from their days of making cell phones with their own OS.

*: Yes, I realise serial number are not guaranteed to be unique.
I'm a volunteer. Take me for granted or abuse my support and I will walk away

All advice given is based on my experience. it worked for me, it may not work for you.
Need help? https://github.com/thagrol/Guides

electronicstoday
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Nov 15, 2019 4:02 am

Re: Will there be a Pi 800 ?

Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:20 am

There will be a FIXED, IMPROVED 400 first... :roll:

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 29352
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Will there be a Pi 800 ?

Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:58 am

Already is I believe.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Working in the Applications Team.

alphanumeric
Posts: 3003
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:17 pm
Location: Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada

Re: Will there be a Pi 800 ?

Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:04 am

If I was going to buy a Pi 400, and there was an 8 gig version, I would pay the extra and buy it over the 4 gig. I'm not going to buy an 8 gig just because it happened though. ;)

Right now, OEM Windows 10 devices have a Product Code embedded in the BIOS. Any stock official install media will detect it and install the matching edition, Home, Pro, etc. There is no need for custom OEM install media like you'd use for Windows 7 etc that use SLIC tables in the BIOS of OEM machines. That embedded key doesn't stop you from installing another edition, or upgrading to a higher edition by manually entering another product code. Once activated a Digital License for that device is stored on the Microsoft Activation server. There isn't any real locked to a device deal, Digital Licenses can be transferred to another device. Just FYI.

If Windows on Arm for a Pi actually happens, I'll give it a look see. I'm not overly optimistic on that happening though.

fruitoftheloom
Posts: 27226
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:40 pm

Re: Will there be a Pi 800 ?

Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:44 am

alphanumeric wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:04 am
If Windows on Arm for a Pi actually happens, I'll give it a look see. I'm not overly optimistic on that happening though.

EU ignored the WoA question, staring a 400 was good as a Thin Client, so obviously the inference would be extremely unlikely:

viewtopic.php?f=62&t=315826
Take what I advise as advice not the utopian holy grail, and it is gratis !!

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 29352
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Will there be a Pi 800 ?

Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:56 am

fruitoftheloom wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:44 am
alphanumeric wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:04 am
If Windows on Arm for a Pi actually happens, I'll give it a look see. I'm not overly optimistic on that happening though.

EU ignored the WoA question, staring a 400 was good as a Thin Client, so obviously the inference would be extremely unlikely:

viewtopic.php?f=62&t=315826
It's entirely up to Microsoft, I doubt they would even tell us!
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Working in the Applications Team.

geev03
Posts: 265
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:40 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Will there be a Pi 800 ?

Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:27 pm

jamesh wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:56 am
fruitoftheloom wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:44 am
alphanumeric wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:04 am
If Windows on Arm for a Pi actually happens, I'll give it a look see. I'm not overly optimistic on that happening though.

EU ignored the WoA question, staring a 400 was good as a Thin Client, so obviously the inference would be extremely unlikely:

viewtopic.php?f=62&t=315826
It's entirely up to Microsoft, I doubt they would even tell us!
With Windows 365, ( https://h5p.org/node/1197733 ) it looks like any device wiith a web browser can 'run' MS Windows.

Windows 11 with out WSL-2 AND WSLg, as on a Pi-400 now, is not that attractive. It may be better to use Windows 365 on a Pi-400/ 64bit Raspberry OS :?:
Attachments
pi400_no_WSL2_in_Win11.jpg
pi400_no_WSL2_in_Win11.jpg (99.28 KiB) Viewed 902 times

larry123
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:37 pm

Re: Will there be a Pi 800 ?

Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:23 am

jamesh wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 9:52 am
larry123 wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:03 am
GlowInTheDark wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 2:45 am
It probably won't be called a "Pi 800", so the answer to your question is: NO.

The 4 in "Pi 400" does not refer to the amount of RAM. It refers to the same thing as what the "4" in "PI 4" does.

I.e., the one that came after the "PI 3".

And before the "Pi 5" (which we know is coming; we just don't know when...)
Then I will just save for Pi 5
You will have saved quite a lot by the time the 5 comes out.
Yes, it is going to be a long wait.

https://techunwrapped.com/the-raspberry ... rry-pi-4a/

trejan
Posts: 3622
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:28 pm

Re: Will there be a Pi 800 ?

Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:31 am

That is a terrible article with zero content.

Return to “Raspberry Pi 400”