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waveform80
Posts: 318
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:28 pm
Location: Manchester, UK

Eoan re-release: Call for testing

Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:30 am

Greetings Ubuntu users!

As many will know, the launch of Eoan with Pi 4 support didn't exactly go to plan! We've been quietly working away at a re-spin of the release with a kernel that properly supports the 4Gb variant of the Pi 4 under the 64-bit architecture. In the course of this, several other issues (affecting a variety of Pi models) either turned up or were caused by other fixes (gory details in #1848790, #1854487, #1854347, #1852510, #1848247, #1850678).

We think we're finally at the point where everything is fixed and stable, but would be interested to hear of any issues people have with the release candidate. This is available in armhf (32-bit) and arm64 (64-bit) variants from:

http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-server ... /20191203/

Please ignore the "raspi3" in the filename; these images are supported on the following models:
  • Raspberry Pi Model 2B (armhf only currently)
  • Raspberry Pi Model 3B
  • Raspberry Pi Model 3A+
  • Raspberry Pi Model 3B+
  • Raspberry Pi Model 4B (all memory sizes)
  • Raspberry Pi Compute Module 3 (all storage sizes including Lite)
  • Raspberry Pi Compute Module 3+ (all storage sizes including Lite)
If you do encounter any issues, please open a bug in Launchpad, or feel free to respond to this thread.

Many thanks and best of luck!

Dave Jones.

phase
Posts: 54
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 3:05 am

Re: Eoan re-release: Call for testing

Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:49 am

on my rpi-4 4gb i used all the options i could...in the software and updates.....it updated to the 1015 kernel..it rebooted ok seems to be working..however the cpu scaling monitor using mate desktop..seems to only let it run to 1.5 gig...hmm maybe something i missed..

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Gavinmc42
Posts: 4293
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:31 am

Re: Eoan re-release: Call for testing

Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:29 am

Seems to be booting and logging in ok on 3B+ and 4B4.
Better this time, but you should have login and password on that page for initial usage, so a search is not needed :D

or link to this
https://ubuntu.com/download/raspberry-pi
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

cjan
Posts: 770
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 12:00 am

Re: Eoan re-release: Call for testing

Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:59 am

so, with #1854487 said, Pi4-B rev-1.2 board truly exist and fixed type-C power issue?
now we can use cell phone charger, right?

spiff72
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:48 pm

Re: Eoan re-release: Call for testing

Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:25 pm

I have been struggling for days to get 19.10 flashed to my Pi4 (4gb), and I just tried the newest images linked in this thread.
See this thread for the details on my previous struggles:
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... 1&t=258601

With the new images, I get an odd output on screen when I try to boot from either the 32bit or 64bit (see linked photo):
https://imgur.com/m7YnsCf

Any ideas? I find it odd that it says no ethernet was found, as there is an ethernet connection to this Pi4. There is one USB device connected - a Logitech USB receiver for mouse and keyboard.

Thanks

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waveform80
Posts: 318
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:28 pm
Location: Manchester, UK

Re: Eoan re-release: Call for testing

Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:13 pm

cjan wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:59 am
so, with #1854487 said, Pi4-B rev-1.2 board truly exist and fixed type-C power issue?
now we can use cell phone charger, right?
I would assume so; I haven't heard anything official about the board revision but given Eben mentioned in an interview "I expect this will be fixed in a future board revision..." {link} it would seem likely that that's what the revision is for. However, I don't have any of that revision sitting around to test, so I can't say for certain.

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waveform80
Posts: 318
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:28 pm
Location: Manchester, UK

Re: Eoan re-release: Call for testing

Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:17 pm

spiff72 wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:25 pm
I have been struggling for days to get 19.10 flashed to my Pi4 (4gb), and I just tried the newest images linked in this thread.
See this thread for the details on my previous struggles:
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... 1&t=258601

With the new images, I get an odd output on screen when I try to boot from either the 32bit or 64bit (see linked photo):
https://imgur.com/m7YnsCf

Any ideas? I find it odd that it says no ethernet was found, as there is an ethernet connection to this Pi4. There is one USB device connected - a Logitech USB receiver for mouse and keyboard.

Thanks
That image looks very much like there's a key stuck on the keyboard (or something *thinks* a key is stuck at any rate). If a key is pressed early in the boot sequence, it'll interrupt u-boot and drop to a u-boot prompt (for debugging / running alternate boot scripts, etc).

This might seem like a weird suggestion, but try unplugging everything from the USB ports and seeing if it'll boot successfully. Try plugging things back in one by one to find out which device is causing the repeated key-presses.

HTH,

Dave.

spiff72
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:48 pm

Re: Eoan re-release: Call for testing

Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:23 pm

waveform80 wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:17 pm
spiff72 wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:25 pm
I have been struggling for days to get 19.10 flashed to my Pi4 (4gb), and I just tried the newest images linked in this thread.
See this thread for the details on my previous struggles:
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... 1&t=258601

With the new images, I get an odd output on screen when I try to boot from either the 32bit or 64bit (see linked photo):
https://imgur.com/m7YnsCf

Any ideas? I find it odd that it says no ethernet was found, as there is an ethernet connection to this Pi4. There is one USB device connected - a Logitech USB receiver for mouse and keyboard.

Thanks
That image looks very much like there's a key stuck on the keyboard (or something *thinks* a key is stuck at any rate). If a key is pressed early in the boot sequence, it'll interrupt u-boot and drop to a u-boot prompt (for debugging / running alternate boot scripts, etc).

This might seem like a weird suggestion, but try unplugging everything from the USB ports and seeing if it'll boot successfully. Try plugging things back in one by one to find out which device is causing the repeated key-presses.

HTH,

Dave.
Thanks Dave...I will try unplugging the USB receiver from the Pi tonight and try again. I had tried unplugging this in previous attempts to get this working, but I don't think I did after trying the new images referenced in this thread.

spiff72
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:48 pm

Re: Eoan re-release: Call for testing

Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:23 pm

spiff72 wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:23 pm
waveform80 wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:17 pm
spiff72 wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:25 pm
I have been struggling for days to get 19.10 flashed to my Pi4 (4gb), and I just tried the newest images linked in this thread.
See this thread for the details on my previous struggles:
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... 1&t=258601

With the new images, I get an odd output on screen when I try to boot from either the 32bit or 64bit (see linked photo):
https://imgur.com/m7YnsCf

Any ideas? I find it odd that it says no ethernet was found, as there is an ethernet connection to this Pi4. There is one USB device connected - a Logitech USB receiver for mouse and keyboard.

Thanks
That image looks very much like there's a key stuck on the keyboard (or something *thinks* a key is stuck at any rate). If a key is pressed early in the boot sequence, it'll interrupt u-boot and drop to a u-boot prompt (for debugging / running alternate boot scripts, etc).

This might seem like a weird suggestion, but try unplugging everything from the USB ports and seeing if it'll boot successfully. Try plugging things back in one by one to find out which device is causing the repeated key-presses.

HTH,

Dave.
Thanks Dave...I will try unplugging the USB receiver from the Pi tonight and try again. I had tried unplugging this in previous attempts to get this working, but I don't think I did after trying the new images referenced in this thread.
Problem solved - it wasn't the keyboard dongle. There must have been a short in the wiring i did inside the custom case that added some LED lights that indicated CPU temp. When I opened the case, it booted normally. There was a loose solder blob that I think was the cause, but after removing that and cleaning things up, it STILL won't boot with the case closed. I have wires soldered to +5v, GND, and a GPIO pin (21). Still figuring that part out, but at least it BOOTS!

Thanks for the tip on what that screen meant.

trejan
Posts: 1112
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:28 pm

Re: Eoan re-release: Call for testing

Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:32 pm

cjan wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:59 am
so, with #1854487 said, Pi4-B rev-1.2 board truly exist and fixed type-C power issue?
now we can use cell phone charger, right?
Cell phone chargers generally worked anyway. It was expensive laptop chargers and e-marked cables that refused to supply power.

Looking at the photos of the 1.2 boards doesn't show any changes to circuitry around the PMIC so 1.2 may not have the USB-C CC fix. Hard to be sure without close up shots of the top and bottom. The Pi engineers aren't acknowledging it still for some reason.

spiff72
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:48 pm

Re: Eoan re-release: Call for testing

Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:09 am

spiff72 wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:23 pm
spiff72 wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:23 pm
waveform80 wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:17 pm


That image looks very much like there's a key stuck on the keyboard (or something *thinks* a key is stuck at any rate). If a key is pressed early in the boot sequence, it'll interrupt u-boot and drop to a u-boot prompt (for debugging / running alternate boot scripts, etc).

This might seem like a weird suggestion, but try unplugging everything from the USB ports and seeing if it'll boot successfully. Try plugging things back in one by one to find out which device is causing the repeated key-presses.

HTH,

Dave.
Thanks Dave...I will try unplugging the USB receiver from the Pi tonight and try again. I had tried unplugging this in previous attempts to get this working, but I don't think I did after trying the new images referenced in this thread.
Problem solved - it wasn't the keyboard dongle. There must have been a short in the wiring i did inside the custom case that added some LED lights that indicated CPU temp. When I opened the case, it booted normally. There was a loose solder blob that I think was the cause, but after removing that and cleaning things up, it STILL won't boot with the case closed. I have wires soldered to +5v, GND, and a GPIO pin (21). Still figuring that part out, but at least it BOOTS!

Thanks for the tip on what that screen meant.
One more update - it may not have been the LED (neopixels) mod. I removed that completely and put another case on it, and the issue continued whenever I put the cover on the case. After a bit more tinkering, I think the u-boot sees something like keypresses when i put downward pressure on the fanshim (https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/fan-shim) that I had installed. I trimmed the case back a bit so it wouldn't push down on the fanshim cooler, and this seems to have helped - I was able to put the cover on, boot, and I am installing the desktop on the 64 bit version now.

User avatar
Gavinmc42
Posts: 4293
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:31 am

Re: Eoan re-release: Call for testing

Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:24 am

I had to install a Desktop ad then remembered why I swapped to Mint.
Chunky icons.

But it is working, if a bit slow and only using one screen.
Not a beginners OS but for Ubuntu fans it is not bad and should only get better.
A very slow boot and it seems to stop at a flashing underline cursor until the keyboard is hit.
Kubuntu issue?

Choices of desktops and window managers means many combinations to test.
Wow, more USB-C whinging., I just use the Pi4 power supply,
Focus on the OS.

Anyway, time for me to see if Mint is Pi4 ready?
Ubuntu Mate, I liked it on the Pi2 years ago?
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

spiff72
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:48 pm

Re: Eoan re-release: Call for testing

Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:09 pm

Gavinmc42 wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:24 am

Anyway, time for me to see if Mint is Pi4 ready?
Ubuntu Mate, I liked it on the Pi2 years ago?
I tried Mate briefly, but I was getting brisk menu crashes every time I clicked the menu.

Started install of ubuntu last night but haven't launched it yet.

spiff72
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:48 pm

Re: Eoan re-release: Call for testing

Sun Dec 08, 2019 4:10 am

Does anything need to be done to make apt update / upgrade / dist-upgrade work correctly with this image? Every time I run them, I get nothing upgraded. Is it just because it has no updates thus far?

spiff72
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:48 pm

Re: Eoan re-release: Call for testing

Sun Dec 08, 2019 4:13 am

Also, on a non-critical note...

Why does the font change during the boot process as the screen is scrolling all of the verbiage? It starts out fairly bold, and then switches to a finer/lighter font. Just curious about this. Never did this on raspbian, and I don't get all the scrolling text on my ubuntu installation on my laptop.

mikgla
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:36 am

Re: Eoan re-release: Call for testing

Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:14 am

Hi.

I just did a fresh install using the latest 64-bit Ubuntu 19.10.1 distro (http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-server ... /20191203/) My setup is:

-RPI4 (4gb), 32Gb SD card, wireless keyboard and mouse, HDMI (connected to my 4K OLED TV)

The good:
-Booted up with no problems. I changed the default password and did an apt update.
-All earlier USB issues are resolved in this version
-Network connectivity OK (Cable and wifi)
-Installed the ubuntu-desktop with no issues
-No problem detecting my TV screen resolution (a problem I had in the earlier release)
-Overclocking works fine

The less good:
-After rebooting, the system goes "black" for about a minute before the ubuntu login screen is displayed.
-No Bluetooth
-No sound

I managed to get the sound to work by adding "dtparam=audio=on" and "hdmi_drive=2" to my config.txt
My workaround for the BT issue was to install pi-bluetooth (sudo apt-install pi-bluetooth) and reboot

I have been using James Chambers unofficial distribution of Ubuntu Server 18.04.3 for Raspberry Pi 4 for a long time on another SD card and everything works fine, even after upgrading it to 19.10 (https://jamesachambers.com/raspberry-pi ... nofficial/)

geev03
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:40 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Eoan re-release: Call for testing

Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:15 pm

mikgla wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:14 am
...

I managed to get the sound to work by adding "dtparam=audio=on" and "hdmi_drive=2" to my config.txt
My workaround for the BT issue was to install pi-bluetooth (sudo apt-install pi-bluetooth) and reboot

...
Thanks a lot.
Sound , wifi etc are all working now.
Docker is also up and running smoothly..
Attachments
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geev03
Posts: 139
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Location: London, UK

Re: Eoan re-release: Call for testing

Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:13 am

The display resolution on a FHD monitor was 1824x984. Got it corrected to 1920x1080 by adding
'disable_overscan=1' in the config.txt followed by a reboot :mrgreen:

Code: Select all

sudo nano /boot/firmware/config.txt
	
add the following at the end

Code: Select all

disable_overscan=1

spiff72
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:48 pm

Re: Eoan re-release: Call for testing

Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:49 pm

geev03 wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:13 am
The display resolution on a FHD monitor was 1824x984. Got it corrected to 1920x1080 by adding
'disable_overscan=1' in the config.txt followed by a reboot :mrgreen:

Code: Select all

sudo nano /boot/firmware/config.txt
	
add the following at the end

Code: Select all

disable_overscan=1
I did the same, but I added the text to the /boot/firmware/usercfg.txt file instead. Not sure what the difference is.

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waveform80
Posts: 318
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Location: Manchester, UK

Re: Eoan re-release: Call for testing

Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:16 pm

spiff72 wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:09 am
One more update - it may not have been the LED (neopixels) mod. I removed that completely and put another case on it, and the issue continued whenever I put the cover on the case. After a bit more tinkering, I think the u-boot sees something like keypresses when i put downward pressure on the fanshim (https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/fan-shim) that I had installed. I trimmed the case back a bit so it wouldn't push down on the fanshim cooler, and this seems to have helped - I was able to put the cover on, boot, and I am installing the desktop on the 64 bit version now.
Glad you got something working! Another theory which has just occurred: u-boot responds to both the framebuffer+keyboard and serial. Because it's (deliberately) a simple environment, under u-boot these are considered the same console (type something on serial, it appears on the framebuffer, type something on the keyboard it appears on serial). Hence, if something is messing with GPIO14 and GPIO15 (the serial pins) it'll show up on the screen too. You could try adding "enable_uart=0" to syscfg.txt. I think that should get u-boot to ignore the serial header (it certainly does for Linux, but I'm a bit fuzzy on exactly what u-boot takes note of in the device-tree).

Anyway, would be very interested to hear if that's the problem; if it is, then it's something I should add to the release notes as there's plenty of add-ons out there that talk over serial by default.

Thanks,

Dave Jones.

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waveform80
Posts: 318
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:28 pm
Location: Manchester, UK

Re: Eoan re-release: Call for testing

Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:19 pm

spiff72 wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 4:10 am
Does anything need to be done to make apt update / upgrade / dist-upgrade work correctly with this image? Every time I run them, I get nothing upgraded. Is it just because it has no updates thus far?
Should work out of the box, and being a re-spin it'll have all the updates for Eoan on that release date. I'd assume there'd be some updates appearing fairly shortly though! :)

spiff72
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:48 pm

Re: Eoan re-release: Call for testing

Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:30 pm

waveform80 wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:19 pm
spiff72 wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 4:10 am
Does anything need to be done to make apt update / upgrade / dist-upgrade work correctly with this image? Every time I run them, I get nothing upgraded. Is it just because it has no updates thus far?
Should work out of the box, and being a re-spin it'll have all the updates for Eoan on that release date. I'd assume there'd be some updates appearing fairly shortly though! :)
I noticed that there is something about daily apt updates starting during the boot process - is it actually doing updates during that time? This might be why it never finds any updates when i check manually. (And I have been rebooting a LOT as I have been tinkering).

spiff72
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:48 pm

Re: Eoan re-release: Call for testing

Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:40 pm

waveform80 wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:16 pm
spiff72 wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:09 am
One more update - it may not have been the LED (neopixels) mod. I removed that completely and put another case on it, and the issue continued whenever I put the cover on the case. After a bit more tinkering, I think the u-boot sees something like keypresses when i put downward pressure on the fanshim (https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/fan-shim) that I had installed. I trimmed the case back a bit so it wouldn't push down on the fanshim cooler, and this seems to have helped - I was able to put the cover on, boot, and I am installing the desktop on the 64 bit version now.
Glad you got something working! Another theory which has just occurred: u-boot responds to both the framebuffer+keyboard and serial. Because it's (deliberately) a simple environment, under u-boot these are considered the same console (type something on serial, it appears on the framebuffer, type something on the keyboard it appears on serial). Hence, if something is messing with GPIO14 and GPIO15 (the serial pins) it'll show up on the screen too. You could try adding "enable_uart=0" to syscfg.txt. I think that should get u-boot to ignore the serial header (it certainly does for Linux, but I'm a bit fuzzy on exactly what u-boot takes note of in the device-tree).

Anyway, would be very interested to hear if that's the problem; if it is, then it's something I should add to the release notes as there's plenty of add-ons out there that talk over serial by default.

Thanks,

Dave Jones.
Interesting - this does actually use those two pins for controlling the onboard RGB LED.
https://pinout.xyz/pinout/fan_shim

It has been very hit/miss getting this thing working correctly on Ubuntu. I suspect that the friction fit header connection is a bit flaky. I still find that I have to "float" the board on the header pins to get it to boot sometimes.

I will try your suggestion of adding the enable_uart=0 line. Would this completely disable those pins then - even after booting (in a way that the RGB LED on the board may not work)? It has only worked intermittently for me thus far - perhaps because of this conflict.

The fan has begun to get a bit noisier than i would like, so I ordered a Flirc aluminum case for the Pi4 for a quieter passive cooling option, so this may all be moot, but there are some odd things going on with this little bugger (fan). (psutil doesn't seem to be able to read CPU temps on Ubuntu/RPi4 either, leading to control problems).

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waveform80
Posts: 318
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:28 pm
Location: Manchester, UK

Re: Eoan re-release: Call for testing

Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:09 pm

spiff72 wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 4:13 am
Also, on a non-critical note...

Why does the font change during the boot process as the screen is scrolling all of the verbiage? It starts out fairly bold, and then switches to a finer/lighter font. Just curious about this. Never did this on raspbian, and I don't get all the scrolling text on my ubuntu installation on my laptop.
This is a good question to which I thought I knew the answer!

Usually the console font is controlled by setupcon (1) which gets its settings (at least the ones related to the console font) from /etc/default/console-setup. This is the case on both Raspbian and Ubuntu (presumably Debian too). If you set FONTFACE and FONTSIZE (or just FONT) in here to something that exists under /usr/share/consolefonts/ then you'll wind up with the selected font-face at the login prompt. The reason I know this is it's one of the things I tend to customize on both Raspbian and Ubuntu (I usually just work at the console on my Pis).

However, what about the situation where you just want to stick with the default font? On Raspbian: no big deal, you just leave FONTFACE and FONTSIZE blank (which they are by default; Ubuntu has a different default here which is the font you see it changing to). But here's the twist: set them to blank on Ubuntu and you still see the font change! After digging into this for a few minutes it turns out something else is effecting another font change long before setupcon ever runs. I think it's something in the initramfs, looking at the time it happens but I'm sure what at the moment (and unfortunately I don't have time to dig into that right now).

Anyway - unfortunately for now I suspect that means you can't forego the font-change (although you can force it to something else, if you want, with the aforementioned files).

Dave Jones.

spiff72
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:48 pm

Re: Eoan re-release: Call for testing

Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:18 pm

waveform80 wrote:
Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:09 pm
spiff72 wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 4:13 am
Also, on a non-critical note...

Why does the font change during the boot process as the screen is scrolling all of the verbiage? It starts out fairly bold, and then switches to a finer/lighter font. Just curious about this. Never did this on raspbian, and I don't get all the scrolling text on my ubuntu installation on my laptop.
This is a good question to which I thought I knew the answer!

Usually the console font is controlled by setupcon (1) which gets its settings (at least the ones related to the console font) from /etc/default/console-setup. This is the case on both Raspbian and Ubuntu (presumably Debian too). If you set FONTFACE and FONTSIZE (or just FONT) in here to something that exists under /usr/share/consolefonts/ then you'll wind up with the selected font-face at the login prompt. The reason I know this is it's one of the things I tend to customize on both Raspbian and Ubuntu (I usually just work at the console on my Pis).

However, what about the situation where you just want to stick with the default font? On Raspbian: no big deal, you just leave FONTFACE and FONTSIZE blank (which they are by default; Ubuntu has a different default here which is the font you see it changing to). But here's the twist: set them to blank on Ubuntu and you still see the font change! After digging into this for a few minutes it turns out something else is effecting another font change long before setupcon ever runs. I think it's something in the initramfs, looking at the time it happens but I'm sure what at the moment (and unfortunately I don't have time to dig into that right now).

Anyway - unfortunately for now I suspect that means you can't forego the font-change (although you can force it to something else, if you want, with the aforementioned files).

Dave Jones.
No problem. Was just an idle observation and I thought maybe it was intended as an enhancement to visibility so some things could be more bold.

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