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DougieLawson
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Re: Claim for an Ubuntu sub-forum

Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:02 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:14 pm

What flavor of Ubuntu do you need a forum for ??
I'll go for mint choc chip (it's a bit weird but not as boring as vanilla).

What part of we just need a place to divvy out the Ubuntu threads not a specific place to talk about 40 flavours and whether they should be served in a waffle or wafer cone are you blathering on about. There's no sub-division needed.

As soon as Ubuntu becomes a subforum, it becomes easier to "mark all topics read" so that folks who aren't running it can ignore stuff (which is what I do for the RISCOS, DebIan, FreeBSD & NetBSD subforums (and would do for Plan9 and Puppy if they ever got a new or resurrected thread within them)).
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mahjongg
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Re: Claim for an Ubuntu sub-forum

Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:07 am

There is almost no difference between using Ubuntu, and Raspbian, both are just debian based distro's, and if you don't want the desktop manager that Raspbian uses, you can just replace it with any other, including ones that Ubuntu uses. But you will see a marked decrease in speed. The desktop manager Raspbian uses is optimised for the capabilities of the raspberry PI. Ubuntu, is not so much, and as you can see Ubuntu itself also don't seem to see the point, or they themselves would put more effort in.

Giga_Pi
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Re: Claim for an Ubuntu sub-forum

Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:34 am

The RPF have no reason to add anything about ubuntu.

As James has pointed out, Canocial have load of money, they should setup their own.

Besides, ubuntu is (kind of) dead. Lubuntu went down, Xubuntu went down, I don't know many people who actually use ubuntu snappy core, or ubuntu server. The only ubuntu flavour that actually is still maintained properly is ubuntu MATE, and that does work (By the way, they also have their own forum for raspberry pi).

Want a sub-forum for ubuntu? Pay the RPF for one. Maintain it yourself. The RPF don't have any important reason to actually have a sub-forum about ubuntu.

Besides, RPF make decisions, and they have intentions behind it. Respect that!
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cjan
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Re: Claim for an Ubuntu sub-forum

Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:02 am

Giga_Pi wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:34 am
The RPF have no reason to add anything about ubuntu.

As James has pointed out, Canocial have load of money, they should setup their own.

Besides, ubuntu is (kind of) dead. Lubuntu went down, Xubuntu went down, I don't know many people who actually use ubuntu snappy core, or ubuntu server. The only ubuntu flavour that actually is still maintained properly is ubuntu MATE, and that does work (By the way, they also have their own forum for raspberry pi).

Want a sub-forum for ubuntu? Pay the RPF for one. Maintain it yourself. The RPF don't have any important reason to actually have a sub-forum about ubuntu.

Besides, RPF make decisions, and they have intentions behind it. Respect that!
there are 12 OS forum in Other sub-forum, does they Pay the RPF?
or, wonder if RPF pay you to speak so loud?

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B.Goode
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Re: Claim for an Ubuntu sub-forum

Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:19 pm

Ubuntu is an ancient African word meaning ‘humanity to others’. It is often described as reminding us that ‘I am what I am because of who we all are’. We bring the spirit of Ubuntu to the world of computers and software. The Ubuntu distribution represents the best of what the world’s software community has shared with the world.
Ref: https://ubuntu.com/about


Sadly, that sense of ‘humanity to others’ seems to be rather lacking in some of the aggressive and demanding contributions here.


If these contributions 'represent the best of what the world’s software community has shared with the world' then we are in a sorry state. But I am an optimist and don't want to believe that these posts are representative.

Heater
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Re: Claim for an Ubuntu sub-forum

Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:39 pm

Oh for goodness sake.

The most used programming language in the world, Javascript, does not have a subsection under programming languages here. Despite it's immense suitability for use on the Pi for the kind of thing people do with a Pi. As node.js.

Meanwhile an operating system, Windows 10 for IoT, has a section "under other programming languages". Despite the fact that it does not even run on recent Pi models and appears to be unsupported by it's massively profitable and rich creator company. Go figure.

The whole place is messed up, but do we complain? No, that is just the way we like it. [1]

Ubuntu is so basically Debain with extra breakage added by Canonical so I see no reason for it to get a special place here.

From the educational perspective of the Pi mission it would be preferable to have a Rust programming language section before another Debian clone.

[1] Well, actually we did. But one soon learns not to do that around here. Better not make a fuss over such details. Better to appreciate and try to contribute to the great good of the rest of it.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Claim for an Ubuntu sub-forum

Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:11 pm

Let's get some perspective, most of the Operating Systems are Community Developed and do not have the resources to host an active Community Forum.

Canonical DO have the resources so why do they refuse to do so ?????
Retired disgracefully.....
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mahjongg
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Re: Claim for an Ubuntu sub-forum

Sat Nov 02, 2019 2:24 pm

Giga_Pi wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:49 pm
Apologise, I felt a little injustice at the moment of writing.
apology accepted, impulse to ban suppressed :mrgreen:

AFAIK nobody is paid here to get a subform, and also all moderators are unpaid volunteers, except that is for jamesh, as he is a card carrying RPF employee. :mrgreen:

The real reason that Ubuntu doesn't have a subform is because Raspbian is almost identical to Ubuntu, (only with another desktop engine) and it has support for its GPU, and other RPI specifics, that Ubuntu, (for now) lacks, because they don't seem to care about supporting the RPI.

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Pulsar33
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Re: Claim for an Ubuntu sub-forum

Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:38 pm

Good evening
Since Jamesh had said above that he was going to look at this and said in this subject that he had thought about it and that he had to talk to the boss, we respected his time for reflection and remained patient. But if the anti-ubuntu come back on the subject, we can also restart the argument (in spite of ourselves).

Look at the sub-forum Other. The last nine topics created concern Ubuntu.

Do some research on the whole forum:
Raspbian : Search found 141821 matches 5673 pages (say it is the reference = 100%)
Ubuntu : Search found 21936 matches 878 pages (this is 15%)
Gentoo : Search found 2035 matches 82 pages (this is 1%)
OpenSuse : Search found 589 matches 24 pages (this is ...)

And finally, I don't see the difference for RPF between letting go the topics about Ubuntu in a sub-forum or leaving them loose in Others
They will be there, anyway.
Do you intend to lock any subject that contains the word Ubuntu?

Best regards
Pulsar33
Pi 4 with 4Gb memory, DVB TV pHAT ------------------- Desktop : Core i5 Linux MINT 19.3

jamesh
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Re: Claim for an Ubuntu sub-forum

Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:42 pm

I have actually asked the boss whether we can have an Ubuntu forum, but no response as yet. I might have to ask a different boss.

I'd actually like to get rid of a load of the OS subforums, those that are Linux based, as most questions for Raspbian are equally applicable. RISCOS would need its own forum, as would WinIOT. (No, I don't know if MS are still working on this).

Its been interesting how many issues have recently appeared on OUR github repo, for Raspbian, asking for help on Ubuntu. That's just plain wrong. It's a Raspbian repo! Canonical really need to pick up their own dog poop.

This next link is not suitable for work, home, children, adults, or anyone of a gentle persuasion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWSLG7XSY2A but eloquently gets the point across. I think I was in the audience of this one, see if you can spot me, I'm the one who thinks Canonical should have their own Raspberry Pi forum.

PS. There is absolutely no point in keeping on asking, it's likely to have exactly the opposite effect to what you want.
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Pulsar33
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Re: Claim for an Ubuntu sub-forum

Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:49 pm

This is why we were silent since you said you were working on it. I hope others will respect that too.
Thank you for your work and your quick response, Jamesh.
Best regards
Pulsar33
Pi 4 with 4Gb memory, DVB TV pHAT ------------------- Desktop : Core i5 Linux MINT 19.3

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DougieLawson
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Re: Claim for an Ubuntu sub-forum

Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:52 pm

jamesh wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:42 pm
This next link is not suitable for work, home, children, adults, or anyone of a gentle persuasion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWSLG7XSY2A but eloquently gets the point across. I think I was in the audience of this one, see if you can spot me, I'm the one who thinks Canonical should have their own Raspberry Pi forum.
The scary part is that you were at Butlin's in Skegness. That says it all.
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Re: Claim for an Ubuntu sub-forum

Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:47 pm

DougieLawson wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:52 pm
The scary part is that you were at Butlin's in Skegness. That says it all.
Butlins Skegness wasn't too bad when I went there. I'm sure I've got some 8mm film I took from the monorail at the time.

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B.Goode
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Re: Claim for an Ubuntu sub-forum

Sat Nov 02, 2019 7:06 pm

rpdom wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:47 pm
DougieLawson wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:52 pm
The scary part is that you were at Butlin's in Skegness. That says it all.
Butlins Skegness wasn't too bad when I went there. I'm sure I've got some 8mm film I took from the monorail at the time.

Did the camera have a big key at the side to wind up the clockwork motor?

Heater
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Re: Claim for an Ubuntu sub-forum

Sat Nov 02, 2019 7:40 pm

Wow, in all my years I never met anyone that admitted that they had been to Butlin's.

Now in one day I find two people fessing up.

I didn't even know Butlin's was still a thing. I though they had folded up in the 1960's when the Brits started flying to Spain and such for their holidays instead.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

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rpdom
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Re: Claim for an Ubuntu sub-forum

Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:23 pm

B.Goode wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 7:06 pm
rpdom wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:47 pm
DougieLawson wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:52 pm
The scary part is that you were at Butlin's in Skegness. That says it all.
Butlins Skegness wasn't too bad when I went there. I'm sure I've got some 8mm film I took from the monorail at the time.

Did the camera have a big key at the side to wind up the clockwork motor?
Yes, actually, it did. :)

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Gavinmc42
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Re: Claim for an Ubuntu sub-forum

Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:32 am

It's a Raspbian repo! Canonical really need to pick up their own dog poop.
Yes, very disappointing experience with Ubuntu, but it has been for years, Mint rules ;)

So many Ubuntu questions, wonder why they come here?
No answer on Ubuntu forums?
Sticky link back to Ubuntu and tell them to ask there, bit rude but it's not RPT's job to fix Ubuntu too.
Unless they pay you lots of money :D
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

cjan
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Re: Claim for an Ubuntu sub-forum

Sun Nov 03, 2019 3:20 am

Gavinmc42 wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:32 am
It's a Raspbian repo! Canonical really need to pick up their own dog poop.
Yes, very disappointing experience with Ubuntu, but it has been for years, Mint rules ;)

So many Ubuntu questions, wonder why they come here?
No answer on Ubuntu forums?
Sticky link back to Ubuntu and tell them to ask there, bit rude but it's not RPT's job to fix Ubuntu too.
Unless they pay you lots of money :D
so, Gentoo has his own forum, why you came here mainly.

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Gavinmc42
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Re: Claim for an Ubuntu sub-forum

Sun Nov 03, 2019 4:32 am

so, Gentoo has his own forum, why you came here mainly.
Because I am in no position to reward those who got Gentoo64 working and who support it.
All I can do is promote it.
There is an old saying that's something like "Your best customer can be your best salesman".
If you have a bad product then.....

If I spent all my time on the Gentoo forums then I am preaching to the converted ;)
While Raspbian is pretty good, Debian is middle of the road, some people might like to know there are alternatives that work and work well.

Once Ubuntu works well and easily on Pi's then a place for people to hear about it could be here.
Diversity is good.
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

Heater
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Re: Claim for an Ubuntu sub-forum

Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:00 am

cjan,
...Gentoo has his own forum,..
So? That is a totally different case and I think Gentoo has earned it's place here:

Gentoo is a Linux distribution run by volunteers.

Gentoo is significantly different from most other distributions. In philosophy and construction.

Gentoo users are encouraged to learn about their system. To build it for themselves from source code. To customize their build the way they want. To optimize it for their machine and their use case. For example the Pi.

Gentoo is very much in alignment with the educational mission of the Pi project.

On the other hand:

Ubuntu is a commercial operation. Run by a company with resources enough to support the Pi if they want to.

Ubuntu leeches off the work of the other volunteer distribution Debian. Another "me too" clone.

The end game for Canonical is to be bought out by Microsoft. As Red Hat was bought by IBM.

I see no reason why the Pi Foundation should be supporting all of that.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

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Re: Claim for an Ubuntu sub-forum

Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:06 am

Heater wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 7:40 pm
Wow, in all my years I never met anyone that admitted that they had been to Butlin's.

Now in one day I find two people fessing up.

I didn't even know Butlin's was still a thing. I though they had folded up in the 1960's when the Brits started flying to Spain and such for their holidays ifnstead.
I go every year to the alternative music festival, much more civilized than camping, and some great bands.
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jahboater
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Re: Claim for an Ubuntu sub-forum

Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:39 am

Heater wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:00 am
cjan,
...Gentoo has his own forum,..
So? That is a totally different case and I think Gentoo has earned it's place here:

Gentoo is a Linux distribution run by volunteers.
And in particular we have an excellent 64-bit Gentoo distribution by Sakaki that works and is well supported.
It is, I think, the first distro people turn to when they want a 64-bit user space.
There should definitely be a forum section for it.

Heater
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Re: Claim for an Ubuntu sub-forum

Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:52 am

jamesh,
...the alternative music festival, much more civilized than camping, and some great bands.
How times have changed.

In my day, in search of alternatives we went to the Stonehenge Festival and/or Glastonbury

Now they go to Butlins !
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

jamesh
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Re: Claim for an Ubuntu sub-forum

Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:48 am

Heater wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:52 am
jamesh,
...the alternative music festival, much more civilized than camping, and some great bands.
How times have changed.

In my day, in search of alternatives we went to the Stonehenge Festival and/or Glastonbury

Now they go to Butlins !
It's mostly Punk with a bit of Ska, seen some fantastic bands. Its these sort of weekends that keep Butlins going I suspect. Always a good turnout. Stranglers headlined this year, with Sham 69, Spizzenergi and a load of others. In the past seen Toyah, The Tubes, Hazel OConner, BUzzcocks, Eddie and the hotrods, Vapors, Boomtown Rats, Peter and the test tube babies, John Otway - too many to go through them all!

Glastonbury is such a PITA. Huge, Camping, terrible toilets and full of drugs. Apparently.
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Contrary to popular belief, humorous signatures are allowed. Here's an example...
“I own the world’s worst thesaurus. Not only is it awful, it’s awful."

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DougieLawson
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Re: Claim for an Ubuntu sub-forum

Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:47 am

I have a Star Trek themed seven inch single by Spizzenergi.
Note: Any requirement to use a crystal ball or mind reading will result in me ignoring your question.

Any DMs sent on Twitter will be answered next month.
All non-medical doctors are on my foes list.

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