SoftReaper
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2015 7:05 pm

Windows 8 RT and Windows IoT BootLoader

Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:46 pm

Hi everybody,

I recently bought a raspberry 2 and tried Windows IoT (formerly C# developper I wasn't really disapointed by it) but I'm a bit sad to see that, unlike many websites and IT specialists says, IoT is not a fully functionnal OS (not for customer side like a linux distro could be with desktop manager and file explorer) so i'm trying to install Windows 8 RT from the recovery Image of my Surface RT (first generation)

it could run on raspberry pi 2 only (newer arm arch compared to raspberry 1, more ram, directx compatible GPU and more):

http://www.xda-developers.com/htc-hd2-r ... indows-rt/
this one work only with efi enabled custom bootloader (not released by dark forces team)

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpos ... ostcount=4
so vhd native boot work on windows 8 RT with arm BCD bootloader

so the question is: how did the efi boot process work for Windows IoT (I suppose that Raspberry firmware doesn't support UEFI natively unlike linaro's kernels for beagleboards) for booting my Windows RT Native VHD

the raspberry is shipped and it'll be here next week. And the last thing I need to know is: do I just need to add a line to the Boot Catalog with the VHD or manipulate every files contained in the iot SD image?

i don't want to publish the result online but I thought that it could be nice to provide windows environement next to linux to cover all usages so the knowledge will be the only target.

thanks by advance and sorry for my poor english

Best Regards

SoftReaper

fruitoftheloom
Posts: 17664
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:40 pm

Re: Windows 8 RT and Windows IoT BootLoader

Sat Jun 13, 2015 7:35 am

fyi the ARM Chip Windows RT was coded for is a different variant to what is used in the RPi ;)
Adieu

SoftReaper
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2015 7:05 pm

Re: Windows 8 RT and Windows IoT BootLoader

Sat Jun 13, 2015 8:51 am

i'll try when I recieve the raspberry, but as my link show it, it worked on old unsupported arm v7 without much work than bootloader rework, so i'm optimistic

i'll post a logwork on this thread

Best regards

mimi123
Posts: 583
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:32 pm

Re: Windows 8 RT and Windows IoT BootLoader

Sun Jun 14, 2015 6:32 am

SoftReaper wrote:Hi everybody,

I recently bought a raspberry 2 and tried Windows IoT (formerly C# developper I wasn't really disapointed by it) but I'm a bit sad to see that, unlike many websites and IT specialists says, IoT is not a fully functionnal OS (not for customer side like a linux distro could be with desktop manager and file explorer) so i'm trying to install Windows 8 RT from the recovery Image of my Surface RT (first generation)

it could run on raspberry pi 2 only (newer arm arch compared to raspberry 1, more ram, directx compatible GPU and more):

http://www.xda-developers.com/htc-hd2-r ... indows-rt/
this one work only with efi enabled custom bootloader (not released by dark forces team)

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpos ... ostcount=4
so vhd native boot work on windows 8 RT with arm BCD bootloader

so the question is: how did the efi boot process work for Windows IoT (I suppose that Raspberry firmware doesn't support UEFI natively unlike linaro's kernels for beagleboards) for booting my Windows RT Native VHD

the raspberry is shipped and it'll be here next week. And the last thing I need to know is: do I just need to add a line to the Boot Catalog with the VHD or manipulate every files contained in the iot SD image?

i don't want to publish the result online but I thought that it could be nice to provide windows environement next to linux to cover all usages so the knowledge will be the only target.

thanks by advance and sorry for my poor english

Best Regards

SoftReaper
You have 2 choices:
-code an HAL extension(nthalext.h in the 8.1 WDK) and enable testsigning
-be happy with Windows 10 Mobile(that can also be used)

SoftReaper
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2015 7:05 pm

Re: Windows 8 RT and Windows IoT BootLoader

Sun Jun 14, 2015 4:12 pm

oh, i'm happy with 10 IoT, but beside it and linux, i'm just curious to see if it could work with minimmum operation on the system.

i'll look at HAL exts like you said, thanks for the tip

edit:

as i just read about HAL extentions, it's mainly requiered for cortex A9 (tegra 2 and 3) since they didn't embeds system timer unlike cortex A15 and A7 so, it'll work out of box with RT 8.1 but not sure for 8

mimi123
Posts: 583
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:32 pm

Re: Windows 8 RT and Windows IoT BootLoader

Sun Jun 14, 2015 6:32 pm

SoftReaper wrote:oh, i'm happy with 10 IoT, but beside it and linux, i'm just curious to see if it could work with minimmum operation on the system.

i'll look at HAL exts like you said, thanks for the tip

edit:

as i just read about HAL extentions, it's mainly requiered for cortex A9 (tegra 2 and 3) since they didn't embeds system timer unlike cortex A15 and A7 so, it'll work out of box with RT 8.1 but not sure for 8
For 8.1 and builds older than the 10030 range, a HALext is needed for the Pi2's interrupt controller[it isn't a GIC]

SoftReaper
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2015 7:05 pm

Re: Windows 8 RT and Windows IoT BootLoader

Sun Jun 14, 2015 6:55 pm

ok, i'll go deeper and read BCM2836 datasheet (if i can get it anywhere, hard to find) thanks for the information

edit: the way to build hal extentions is reserved to windows phone oems
https://dev.windowsphone.com/en-us/OEM/ ... EM_drivers

i've just compared windows RT and IoT mainOS partition and saw those things:

there is 7 Hal Exts in 10 vs 2 in RT

2 are in common: Tegra 2 and PL310 Cache Controller

in the 5 remainings in windows 10 there is:
3 dedicated to snapdragon S4
1 for PL080 and SP804

The 804 works the same way as the one included in BCM2835/6 but with 32/16 bits register widths in places of 64/32
The 080 is DMA related so not the kind of things that i'm looking for at this time (but it looks to be the same DMA controller as the one present in the BCM2835

tryed to boot windows IoT on qemu but it's a pain to make it work on windows so i'll retry under opensuse later

SoftReaper
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2015 7:05 pm

Re: Windows 8 RT and Windows IoT BootLoader

Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:54 pm

as promised i get back to you,

as mimi123said it doesn't work, (error 0x000005C which refers to an HAL error) without the ability to get informations to how build HAL extensions i can't go further. So it is feasable on another SBC (allwinner based as they are strictly based on arm specs) but not applicable to raspberry without modifications

thanks you for all your answers

mimi123
Posts: 583
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:32 pm

Re: Windows 8 RT and Windows IoT BootLoader

Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:41 am

SoftReaper wrote:as promised i get back to you,

as mimi123said it doesn't work, (error 0x000005C which refers to an HAL error) without the ability to get informations to how build HAL extensions i can't go further. So it is feasable on another SBC (allwinner based as they are strictly based on arm specs) but not applicable to raspberry without modifications

thanks you for all your answers
You can build HAL extensions yourself.
See the nthalext.h in the WDK and don't forget to build it as a DLL.

SoftReaper
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2015 7:05 pm

Re: Windows 8 RT and Windows IoT BootLoader

Fri Jun 19, 2015 7:20 pm

i'm getting the WDK tkanks for your help, i'm sorry if i look as a spotless mind, but i'm new into system oriented developpment

sortaloc
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:35 am

Re: Windows 8 RT and Windows IoT BootLoader

Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:52 am

I have tried to put the Windows Surface's recovery files from its install.wim into the MainOS partition. I can see it can enter the recovery screen but suddenly it reboot [attachment=1]Screenshot_65.png[/attachment]. If I'm not mistaken, I replace the boot files with files from the recovery.

[attachment=0]11938930_10206314942924958_1008670586_n.jpg[/attachment] The second picture showed when I put the winre.wim or install.wim files into MainOS partition. Sorry, low quality picture.
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pavansky
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2015 7:21 pm

Re: Windows 8 RT and Windows IoT BootLoader

Sun Sep 06, 2015 7:39 pm

Hi there. Found your post while googling, Any progress on booting into win 8 rt.. I have got a touchscreen monitor..wanted to put win 8/10 with touch gui on my rpi 2.. really appreciate what you are trying to do..

sortaloc
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:35 am

Re: Windows 8 RT and Windows IoT BootLoader

Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:21 am

pavansky wrote:Hi there. Found your post while googling, Any progress on booting into win 8 rt.. I have got a touchscreen monitor..wanted to put win 8/10 with touch gui on my rpi 2.. really appreciate what you are trying to do..
I'm still in trying to find the Windows IoT boot schemes. I think if we could find its scheme. We can put the Windows RT bootloader into our rpi2 with Windows IoT partition. Do you know the Data Partition use for on Windows IoT? There're 3 mounted volumes on MainOS partition.

mimi123
Posts: 583
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:32 pm

Re: Windows 8 RT and Windows IoT BootLoader

Sun Sep 20, 2015 7:33 am

pavansky wrote:Hi there. Found your post while googling, Any progress on booting into win 8 rt.. I have got a touchscreen monitor..wanted to put win 8/10 with touch gui on my rpi 2.. really appreciate what you are trying to do..
Try Windows 10 Mobile, it nearly works (crash in sihost now) with creating an FFU

p1u3sch1
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2015 5:46 pm

Re: Windows 8 RT and Windows IoT BootLoader

Thu Sep 24, 2015 5:48 pm

mimi123 wrote:
pavansky wrote:Hi there. Found your post while googling, Any progress on booting into win 8 rt.. I have got a touchscreen monitor..wanted to put win 8/10 with touch gui on my rpi 2.. really appreciate what you are trying to do..
Try Windows 10 Mobile, it nearly works (crash in sihost now) with creating an FFU
How did you create the Windows 10 Mobile FFU?

dirtbikerxz
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 2:16 am

Re: Windows 8 RT and Windows IoT BootLoader

Sat Oct 24, 2015 2:18 am

Hey guys, sorry for the bump, but has any progress been made on loading rt on the pi?. I'm working on a project for school right now, and its a nightmare working with raspbian, windows would make it much easier. I noticed its been a month since the last reply, please let us know, if any progress has been made, and by some miracle rt is working. Thanks in advance.

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 20756
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Windows 8 RT and Windows IoT BootLoader

Sat Oct 24, 2015 1:25 pm

dirtbikerxz wrote:Hey guys, sorry for the bump, but has any progress been made on loading rt on the pi?. I'm working on a project for school right now, and its a nightmare working with raspbian, windows would make it much easier. I noticed its been a month since the last reply, please let us know, if any progress has been made, and by some miracle rt is working. Thanks in advance.
Cannot help on the Windows thing, but why is Raspbian a problem? I do dev work on LInux all the time, it's not usually a problem.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Please direct all questions to the forum, I do not do support via PM.

ame
Posts: 3172
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:21 am
Location: Korea

Re: Windows 8 RT and Windows IoT BootLoader

Sat Oct 24, 2015 1:28 pm

dirtbikerxz wrote:Hey guys, sorry for the bump, but has any progress been made on loading rt on the pi?. I'm working on a project for school right now, and its a nightmare working with raspbian, windows would make it much easier. I noticed its been a month since the last reply, please let us know, if any progress has been made, and by some miracle rt is working. Thanks in advance.
What are some of the problems you have been having? Perhaps they can be easily solved with some help?

fruitoftheloom
Posts: 17664
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:40 pm

Re: Windows 8 RT and Windows IoT BootLoader

Sat Oct 24, 2015 1:47 pm

dirtbikerxz wrote:Hey guys, sorry for the bump, but has any progress been made on loading rt on the pi?. I'm working on a project for school right now, and its a nightmare working with raspbian, windows would make it much easier. I noticed its been a month since the last reply, please let us know, if any progress has been made, and by some miracle rt is working. Thanks in advance.
Windows RT ARM OS is not the same as Windows x86 Desktop so you could not install regular desktop software :shock:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_RT
Adieu

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DougieLawson
Posts: 34167
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Location: Basingstoke, UK
Contact: Website

Re: Windows 8 RT and Windows IoT BootLoader

Sat Oct 24, 2015 1:55 pm

dirtbikerxz wrote:Hey guys, sorry for the bump, but has any progress been made on loading rt on the pi?
I suspect since there's only about three people in the world interested in getting WinRT running that it's never going to happen. The folks who own the code (Microsoft) appear to have no desire to do it and since it's not open source you're going to have an impossible task if you get any bugs that need fixing.

Forget it, stick with a supported main-stream OS.
Microprocessor, Raspberry Pi & Arduino Hacker
Mainframe database troubleshooter
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Twitter: @DougieLawson

2012-18: 1B*5, 2B*2, B+, A+, Z, ZW, 3Bs*3, 3B+

Any DMs sent on Twitter will be answered next month.

dirtbikerxz
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 2:16 am

Re: Windows 8 RT and Windows IoT BootLoader

Sat Oct 24, 2015 2:04 pm

Ah okay, thanks guys. And its not really problems I'm having with raspbian, but some of the things I'm doing will take about 5 sec on windows, whereas it takes 2 min or raspbian (the whole setup process and all). So its just a bit annoying, but that's fine. Thanks again guys.

vr6cer
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2016 3:57 pm
Location: Hungary

Re: Windows 8 RT and Windows IoT BootLoader

Sun Mar 06, 2016 11:09 pm

sortaloc wrote:I have tried to put the Windows Surface's recovery files from its install.wim into the MainOS partition. I can see it can enter the recovery screen but suddenly it reboot [attachment=1]Screenshot_65.png[/attachment]. If I'm not mistaken, I replace the boot files with files from the recovery.

[attachment=0]11938930_10206314942924958_1008670586_n.jpg[/attachment] The second picture showed when I put the winre.wim or install.wim files into MainOS partition. Sorry, low quality picture.
Hello, how did you managed that? Could you explain it please? Thank you!
Raspberry PI 3 Model B, Xiaomi Redmi Note 2 16 GB Global ROM 7.1.3 w root, Sony Playstation 2 120GB FHDB-MOD (Sony HDD-adapter), Playstation 3 12GB+500GB HDD OFW, Asus T200TA 2GB/64GB Win 10 Pro, VW Golf MK3 VR6 '92

mimi123
Posts: 583
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:32 pm

Re: Windows 8 RT and Windows IoT BootLoader

Tue Mar 08, 2016 4:49 pm

DougieLawson wrote:
dirtbikerxz wrote:Hey guys, sorry for the bump, but has any progress been made on loading rt on the pi?
I suspect since there's only about three people in the world interested in getting WinRT running that it's never going to happen. The folks who own the code (Microsoft) appear to have no desire to do it and since it's not open source you're going to have an impossible task if you get any bugs that need fixing.

Forget it, stick with a supported main-stream OS.
It's that the Pi doesn't use a standard GIC interrupt controller, and STILL doesn't in the Pi3. I think it's the only Cortex-A7 or A53 piece of hardware having a non-standard interrupt controller.
I think that reversing the interrupt controller's HAL extension ABI, if it even exists...
(or a FrankenWindows with running the W10 kernel with 8.1 userspace)

mimi123
Posts: 583
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:32 pm

Re: Windows 8 RT and Windows IoT BootLoader

Tue Mar 08, 2016 5:01 pm

vr6cer wrote:
sortaloc wrote:I have tried to put the Windows Surface's recovery files from its install.wim into the MainOS partition. I can see it can enter the recovery screen but suddenly it reboot [attachment=1]Screenshot_65.png[/attachment]. If I'm not mistaken, I replace the boot files with files from the recovery.

[attachment=0]11938930_10206314942924958_1008670586_n.jpg[/attachment] The second picture showed when I put the winre.wim or install.wim files into MainOS partition. Sorry, low quality picture.
Hello, how did you managed that? Could you explain it please? Thank you!
He did nothing. Winload stops the system, it can't set up the GIC because it doesn't exist ;) (can be seen with a kernel debugger)

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