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by danpeirce
Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:40 pm
Forum: Staffroom, classroom and projects
Topic: BASIC - more harmful than useful?
Replies: 899
Views: 134158

Re: BASIC - more harmful than useful?

Back on-topic, it just struck me that BASIC may have an important advantage over Python in the classroom. Not in teaching kids; I still feel Python is the best language for them. But BASIC is a very small language. It would be possible to teach the teachers to teach it, very quickly -- in weekend o...
by danpeirce
Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:45 pm
Forum: Staffroom, classroom and projects
Topic: BASIC - more harmful than useful?
Replies: 899
Views: 134158

Re: BASIC - more harmful than useful?

Nice to know that you have the ability to know what the future holds in 16 to 20 years, when the kids we teach today will be out of university and looking for jobs. Besides they will have had plenty of time to learn many other languages before that. Kids come to University today with no programming...
by danpeirce
Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:23 pm
Forum: Staffroom, classroom and projects
Topic: BASIC - more harmful than useful?
Replies: 899
Views: 134158

Re: BASIC - more harmful than useful?

@ danpeirce - Fair point. I wonder whether though we should look at this in perspective. No one is suggesting we should be hot housing primary school kids like Korean olympic gymnasts to become super-nerds. I would suggest that the first programming language is not that important and that all progr...
by danpeirce
Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:27 pm
Forum: Staffroom, classroom and projects
Topic: BASIC - more harmful than useful?
Replies: 899
Views: 134158

Re: BASIC - more harmful than useful?

And it gave you a spring board into other more grown up languages. BASIC doesn't seem to have done you any harm. I doubt you had to undergo a course of counselling after learning BASIC. I suspect you simply retained and transfered those skills to the languages you use now. Sure you can't create a l...
by danpeirce
Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:02 am
Forum: Staffroom, classroom and projects
Topic: BASIC - more harmful than useful?
Replies: 899
Views: 134158

Re: BASIC - more harmful than useful?

Personally I never use it, but if it wasn't for BASIC I would never have been able to learn C as C isn't really a beginner friendly language so for that I'm grateful. This is quite surprising to me because neither FORTRAN or BASIC were at all helpful to me when it came to learning C. Pascal on the ...
by danpeirce
Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:46 am
Forum: Staffroom, classroom and projects
Topic: BASIC - more harmful than useful?
Replies: 899
Views: 134158

Re: BASIC - more harmful than useful?

A lot of the complaints in this thread are that BASIC is er, basic. Well - duh. "BASIC - more harmful than useful?" - No. "BASIC - the best programming language ever?" - No - its er, basic. Despite that alot of its features are echoed in other languages - many skills learned from using BASIC are tr...
by danpeirce
Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:42 am
Forum: Staffroom, classroom and projects
Topic: BASIC - more harmful than useful?
Replies: 899
Views: 134158

Re: BASIC - more harmful than useful?

It is not about introducing implementation of classes that I speak. I whas speaking of giving the example that does a lot of hidde stuff that a young child would imediately devide is doing a lot that is not shown (in this case by the class implementations that are standard to the language) and they...
by danpeirce
Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:26 pm
Forum: Staffroom, classroom and projects
Topic: BASIC - more harmful than useful?
Replies: 899
Views: 134158

Re: BASIC - more harmful than useful?

Its has been years since I had given Python a serious look. And if it considers types that require large classes to manipulate to be intrinsic I will never give it another look, this makes it at least as bad as JAVA. Try teaching a young kid a language that hides so much behind "Standard" class typ...
by danpeirce
Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:52 pm
Forum: Staffroom, classroom and projects
Topic: BASIC - more harmful than useful?
Replies: 899
Views: 134158

Re: BASIC - more harmful than useful?

@danpeirce: I am aware of the general university level oposition to BASIC, this was even the case when I first began my CS studies at university (beginning at Baylor in fall 1990). And while I will never accept a degree (despite many universities attempting to talk me into it) I continue my studies...
by danpeirce
Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:23 pm
Forum: Staffroom, classroom and projects
Topic: BASIC - more harmful than useful?
Replies: 899
Views: 134158

Re: BASIC - more harmful than useful?

I assume that you use Python? Would you realy want to teach Python to a 7 year old as there first experiece with programming? I feel that this is one of the major problems with modern computer education, we do not attempt to expose young children to programming, they are able to understand it bette...
by danpeirce
Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:15 am
Forum: Staffroom, classroom and projects
Topic: BASIC - more harmful than useful?
Replies: 899
Views: 134158

Re: BASIC - more harmful than useful?

DavidS I'd have to wonder how many teachers in North America have any background at all in BBC Basic V? I expect the number would be very small. What universities are offering courses, seminars or workshops where they can brush up on their skills? I had a quick look with Google and did not find any....
by danpeirce
Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:28 pm
Forum: RISCOS
Topic: What does RISCOS bring to the RPi party
Replies: 63
Views: 17692

Re: What does RISCOS bring to the RPi party

@danpeirce: Thank you, Thank you. You have perectly articulated a point that I have been attempting to make for over a year on these forums. The point that is a big part of the reaon that I personally feel that RISC OS is the best suited OS for the RPi: EDUCATING THE YOUNG GENERATION. Is this not t...
by danpeirce
Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:29 am
Forum: RISCOS
Topic: What does RISCOS bring to the RPi party
Replies: 63
Views: 17692

Re: What does RISCOS bring to the RPi party

I don't think you're comparing like with like, and at the risk of feed a troll I would say that you fundamentally mis-understand both what the RPi and Risc Os are about. If you want a full strength, fully mutli-user environment as a server I suggest you pay the premium for that. If on the other han...
by danpeirce
Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:00 pm
Forum: Staffroom, classroom and projects
Topic: BASIC - more harmful than useful?
Replies: 899
Views: 134158

Re: BASIC - more harmful than useful?

No, saying "more harmful than useful" is going too far I think. I'd don't think statements like that are helpful. Unlike a lot of people who have posted here I learned FORTRAN first then 8 bit assembly (6809, Z80, 68HC11) then some GW-BASIC followed by Pascal and then C and PIC assembly. I have also...
by danpeirce
Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:05 pm
Forum: Staffroom, classroom and projects
Topic: RasberryPi vs Arduino ? Differences so far?
Replies: 35
Views: 25069

Re: RasberryPi vs Arduino ? Differences so far?

tomroth wrote:RasberryPi sounds really cool. May get one. I built a Segway clone with my Arduino Uno, can the RasPi do that?
In my opinion a Raspberry Pi would be better suited for adding additional functionality. Say, adding gps , wi-fi connectivity and a computer interface to the project.
by danpeirce
Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:56 pm
Forum: General discussion
Topic: New here, just want to clear some things up.
Replies: 32
Views: 5147

Re: New here, just want to clear some things up.

The last few answers were good generic answers to why one would want a raspberry pi and not just the computer they already have (actually one one posted while I was writing this one). Other reasons could be that the raspberry pi is inexpensive enough that it can be dedicated to one project for a lon...
by danpeirce
Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:04 pm
Forum: Beginners
Topic: "Beginners" put off...
Replies: 297
Views: 35450

Re: "Beginners" put off...

Having had 18 years experience working in labs with adult students as an Electronics Technology Lab Instructor I can say there is no substitute for having an instructor around to help one out when stuck. Having said that there is no reason that a kid who has that resource could not play around with ...
by danpeirce
Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:28 am
Forum: RISCOS
Topic: What does RISCOS bring to the RPi party
Replies: 63
Views: 17692

Re: What does RISCOS bring to the RPi party

From the discussion here so far it appears that there are no compelling reasons for me to switch over from Raspbian or even play around with RiscOS anytime soon. Some day I might give it a look if a situation comes up where it looks like it would help me. Ok and what do you do if Rasbian hangs? ......
by danpeirce
Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:56 pm
Forum: RISCOS
Topic: What does RISCOS bring to the RPi party
Replies: 63
Views: 17692

Re: What does RISCOS bring to the RPi party

(snip)... And what is the problem with the system hanging or crashing? No-one else is using the system, nothing's been damaged, and this is an educational system! (snip) I use the raspberry pi headless and remotely. My original question was actually along the lines of if there are ssh and vnc serve...
by danpeirce
Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:25 am
Forum: RISCOS
Topic: What does RISCOS bring to the RPi party
Replies: 63
Views: 17692

Re: What does RISCOS bring to the RPi party

(snip)... I do think that it would be worth adding a timer of sorts to forcably switch any task running in the WIMP that deoes not call Wimp_Poll for more than a couple of seconds. Currently the only thing that a normal task can easily do to 'crash the system' is never call Wimp_Poll ... (snip). Ye...
by danpeirce
Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:53 pm
Forum: RISCOS
Topic: What does RISCOS bring to the RPi party
Replies: 63
Views: 17692

Re: What does RISCOS bring to the RPi party

Also your statement about one windows program bringing down the whole system is more about memry protecton, not the multitasing model. Windows 3.1x did not have any memory protecion (even with "protected Memory" enabled [what they calle 'Protected Memory' whas actually on demand paging to disk]). R...
by danpeirce
Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:16 pm
Forum: RISCOS
Topic: What does RISCOS bring to the RPi party
Replies: 63
Views: 17692

Re: What does RISCOS bring to the RPi party

-- so this was in response to DavidS's message at 11:27 (not the morst recent one) So what I think you are saying DavidS is that when timing of a task is critical then preemptive multitasking is an issue that gets in the way. I agree with that. I guess the Raspberry Pi and RiscOS could be one soluti...
by danpeirce
Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:53 pm
Forum: RISCOS
Topic: What does RISCOS bring to the RPi party
Replies: 63
Views: 17692

Re: What does RISCOS bring to the RPi party

Anyway I am a little curious is anyone has a vnc server working on the R-Pi with riscos. I would think that preemptive multitasking would be needed to keep a vnc server running reliably? While I have no use for VNC: This seems to be a common missunderstanding of Cooperative Multitasking vs. Preempt...
by danpeirce
Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:25 am
Forum: RISCOS
Topic: What does RISCOS bring to the RPi party
Replies: 63
Views: 17692

Re: What does RISCOS bring to the RPi party

There is a VNC server for RISC OS, though at the moment I can not remmember the name of it. I am not so sure about SSH, though I would be quite surprized if there is not one. I have no need for these things Sorry i could not be a bit more helpful. As to usig the RPi headless, is the computer that y...
by danpeirce
Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:52 am
Forum: RISCOS
Topic: What does RISCOS bring to the RPi party
Replies: 63
Views: 17692

Re: What does RISCOS bring to the RPi party

RiscOS appears to be lacking a ssh server and a vnc server both of which I find useful since I am using the Raspberry Pi headless. I can operate the raspberry pi from a desktop, netbook or tablet depending on the situation. It is easy enough to swap SD cards so I guess a person could use Raspbian wh...

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