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by TheManWhoWas
Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:07 pm
Forum: General discussion
Topic: Isn't this all too complicated?
Replies: 230
Views: 45645

Re: Isn't this all too complicated?

<t>iAreNewb said: <br/> <br/> I think it opens up an option that wasn't there before, because a $25 computer with Python preinstalled and basic Internet capability is enough to get the average kid learning the entire language via tutorials and Google within a few hours.<br/> Yes, but it doesn't prov...
by TheManWhoWas
Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:35 pm
Forum: General discussion
Topic: Isn't this all too complicated?
Replies: 230
Views: 45645

Re: Isn't this all too complicated?

<t>JamesH said: <br/> <br/> Why do they need bait? Do they have bait to study English? Maths? No, they do it at school. They may not like it but they do it. Same could apply to the Raspi.<br/> So it doesn't matter if the Pi is horrible to use, because the kids will just have to lump it?!?<br/> <br/>...
by TheManWhoWas
Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:05 pm
Forum: General discussion
Topic: Isn't this all too complicated?
Replies: 230
Views: 45645

Re: Isn't this all too complicated?

<t>The more I've thought about this, the more I've started to think that actually a web server LAMP set up is the perfect starting point. Let's face it, in HTML, "Hello World" is:<br/> <br/> <br/> Hello World<br/> <br/> <br/> Beat that! OK, not exactly a program, but you get to see it in your web br...
by TheManWhoWas
Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:59 pm
Forum: General discussion
Topic: Girls
Replies: 40
Views: 10658

Re: Girls

<t>khulat said: <br/> <br/> <br/> I don't think that would be helpful, for reference i would like to point you to this letter by a 14 year old girl about the new Lego for girls.<br/> <br/> <br/> Sure, my 9 year old was outraged when her Lego Club magazine turned up and turned out to be a special "gi...
by TheManWhoWas
Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:28 pm
Forum: General discussion
Topic: Girls
Replies: 40
Views: 10658

Re: Girls

<t>rurwin said: <br/> <br/> <br/> In my current company of around 30 people, 20 of whom are developers, there are 3 women. One is the accountant and another is a tester. That ratio has held over my entire career from university on.<br/> <br/> <br/> At last! When I started this thread I assumed the f...
by TheManWhoWas
Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:16 pm
Forum: General discussion
Topic: Girls
Replies: 40
Views: 10658

Re: Girls

<t>I realise that everyone on this forum is a 17 year old nympette masquerading as a middle aged Linux geek, and I'm almost certain that 'liz' is in fact a 45 year old bearded scouser, but then again I might be wrong.<br/> <br/> So is it possible to get the fairer sex more interested in programming,...
by TheManWhoWas
Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:32 pm
Forum: General discussion
Topic: Isn't this all too complicated?
Replies: 230
Views: 45645

Re: Isn't this all too complicated?

<t>Jaseman said: <br/> <br/> <br/> Here we are 12 pages later.<br/> <br/> To go back to the original question - No it isn't too complicated.<br/> <br/> <br/> <br/> Not quite the conclusion 12 pages of discussion had led me to. I am now pretty confident and excited that this will be true of the educa...
by TheManWhoWas
Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:27 pm
Forum: Staffroom, classroom and projects
Topic: Best first language
Replies: 160
Views: 49025

Re: Best first language

<t>Lots of interesting opinions on here. One thing that many people miss is that what kept a lot of us programming in the 80s was the fact we could make interesting graphical stuff happen. That's not so easy with modern computers, which is why I've been suggesting environments like RobotC Virtual Wo...
by TheManWhoWas
Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:23 am
Forum: General discussion
Topic: Isn't this all too complicated?
Replies: 230
Views: 45645

Re: Isn't this all too complicated?

<t>MegaGumbo said: <br/> <br/> <br/> There"re teenagers coding games for mobile phones and there are teens who prefer to just play a game on their Xbox. Just like back then. I think by generally declaring something too difficult for today"s kids, we really do them wrong big time.<br/> <br/> <br/> Ki...
by TheManWhoWas
Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:11 pm
Forum: Staffroom, classroom and projects
Topic: Learning materials for older students?
Replies: 44
Views: 9237

Re: Learning materials for older students?

<t>Another one to check out is Unity3D. Lots of developers are using this to make games and everyone I know loves it to bits.<br/> <br/> Also, with the rise of Facebook and mobile games, and the now certain demise of Flash, being ahead of the game with HTML5 is no bad place to be, and builds on the ...
by TheManWhoWas
Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:43 pm
Forum: General discussion
Topic: Isn't this all too complicated?
Replies: 230
Views: 45645

Re: Isn't this all too complicated?

<t>I do agree that ideally the language and techniques taught would be "real world", but I also think it is important to provide engaging and accessible environments.<br/> <br/> In 1982 just owning my own computer was engaging, and it was accessible because it was so simple.<br/> <br/> In 2012 ownin...
by TheManWhoWas
Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:18 pm
Forum: General discussion
Topic: Isn't this all too complicated?
Replies: 230
Views: 45645

Re: Isn't this all too complicated?

<t>Lynbarn said: <br/> <br/> I think I know what you mean. In terms of basic programming skills as with the ZX81, BBC Micro, etc. it will be possible to build a boot SD that will boot the "Pi directly into a flashing cursor, and allow programming to begin, with all the Linux stuff  hidden away.<br/>...
by TheManWhoWas
Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:30 pm
Forum: General discussion
Topic: Isn't this all too complicated?
Replies: 230
Views: 45645

Re: Isn't this all too complicated?

<r>To me the fact the Raspberry Pi will be running Linux is completely irrelevant. I assumed it was running it for the same reason people use it on servers - because it does the job and is free.<br/> <br/> I originally started this post because every time I visited this site to see how things were p...
by TheManWhoWas
Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:58 pm
Forum: General discussion
Topic: Isn't this all too complicated?
Replies: 230
Views: 45645

Re: Isn't this all too complicated?

<t>Abishur said: <br/> <br/> <br/> I heard my wife on my Linux box this morning and asked her when she started using it.  She replied "Well it's always on and when I realized how easy it was to use I started liking it"<br/> <br/> <br/> <br/> But I'd hazard a guess that a) you'd already set it up, an...
by TheManWhoWas
Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:42 pm
Forum: General discussion
Topic: Isn't this all too complicated?
Replies: 230
Views: 45645

Re: Isn't this all too complicated?

<r>Little Big Planet is an excellent example because it contains a level editor with enough logic to do things like this: <URL url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?g.....-2-vdNItoI">http://www.youtube.com/watch?g.....-2-vdNItoI</URL><br/> <br/> I think it is this sort of environment that is needed to e...
by TheManWhoWas
Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:20 pm
Forum: General discussion
Topic: Isn't this all too complicated?
Replies: 230
Views: 45645

Re: Isn't this all too complicated?

<t><br/> It may be heresy but I find the instant gratification of Visual Basic or C# very attractive.  I can drop controls onto a form and with a few clicks write a few lines of code to do the work.<br/> <br/> <br/> The reason I keep mentioning RobotC Virtual Worlds is because it gives this kind of ...
by TheManWhoWas
Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:27 pm
Forum: General discussion
Topic: Isn't this all too complicated?
Replies: 230
Views: 45645

Re: Isn't this all too complicated?

<t>OK, I know I've been nostalgic about the ZX81, but I was thinking desktop icons linking to programming environments in the vein of RobotC Virtual Worlds was more 2012.<br/> <br/> I remember booting up my old Amiga 1200 in about 1997 and being horrified how ancient it all looked. So we can't actua...
by TheManWhoWas
Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:08 pm
Forum: General discussion
Topic: Isn't this all too complicated?
Replies: 230
Views: 45645

Re: Isn't this all too complicated?

<t><br/> tritonium said: <br/> <br/> <br/> What might be a good option is to supply an SD card which boots straight into a programming environment - basic, Python etc.<br/> <br/> <br/> <br/> Essentially, but what I envisaged was not quite so raw. The supplied Linux would have desktop and quick launc...
by TheManWhoWas
Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:03 pm
Forum: General discussion
Topic: Isn't this all too complicated?
Replies: 230
Views: 45645

Re: Isn't this all too complicated?

<t>That link to the ZX81 manual is fantastic and a salutory reminder of just why us 80's kids were able to teach ourselves to program. Take this from chapter 1:<br/> <br/> If you're a novice, then the main part of the manual has been written for you. Don't ignore the exercises; many of them raise in...
by TheManWhoWas
Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:30 pm
Forum: General discussion
Topic: Isn't this all too complicated?
Replies: 230
Views: 45645

Re: Isn't this all too complicated?

<t>The point of my thread was whether the Pi was addressing the needs of the next generation, not me.<br/> <br/> Personally the ZX81 was my starting point to a career in software dev, not the end of the road. So that 216 page manual was invaluable to me, but I was concerned the Pi wasn't providing t...
by TheManWhoWas
Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:12 pm
Forum: General discussion
Topic: Isn't this all too complicated?
Replies: 230
Views: 45645

Re: Isn't this all too complicated?

Cool, KidsRuby and Alice do look the kind of thing I'm thinking of. It is these kinds of pieces of software that are needed to help ease people into programming, and if they come as part of the Raspberry Pi package, then that is good. But if people have to search them out, that is less good.
by TheManWhoWas
Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:34 pm
Forum: General discussion
Topic: Isn't this all too complicated?
Replies: 230
Views: 45645

Re: Isn't this all too complicated?

<r>This thread has gone wildly off topic. In my OP I wasn't complaining about Linux being too difficult per se, I was pointing out that all modern OS's are rather complex for beginners TO LEARN TO PROGRAM ON.<br/> <br/> Being dropped into Linux doesn't get kids programming anymore than being dropped...
by TheManWhoWas
Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:34 am
Forum: General discussion
Topic: Isn't this all too complicated?
Replies: 230
Views: 45645

Re: Isn't this all too complicated?

<t>Thanks for the clarification of where things are at Liz. I now better understand the situation. I was just getting concerned that there were seemingly two levels of interest for the Pi - experienced people who want a cheap as chips Linux box, and very inexperienced people who are expecting the Pi...
by TheManWhoWas
Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:47 pm
Forum: General discussion
Topic: Isn't this all too complicated?
Replies: 230
Views: 45645

Re: Isn't this all too complicated?

<t>Just to be clear, I'm not having a go at Linux and I'm sure the distros supplied will work perfectly. But I don't really see how it helps people like JamieR get started with programming anymore than installing Python on a PC or reformatting his laptop to run Linux would.<br/> <br/> As far as I ca...
by TheManWhoWas
Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:57 pm
Forum: General discussion
Topic: Isn't this all too complicated?
Replies: 230
Views: 45645

Re: Isn't this all too complicated?

<t>I think the aims behind the Raspberry Pi are great, but I've got concerns that unless I'm missing a major piece of the puzzle, it isn't really addressing the major problem with learning computing today...<br/> <br/> I got into programming at 13 on a second-hand ZX81. You switched it on and it sat...

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