MK802


20 posts
by gavinca » Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:19 am
Before people start buying a Raspberry Pi with the intention of using it am a LAMP server, I'd encourage them to check out a bit of the "competition". Specifically, the MK802.

Please note, I am not saying that the MK802 is better than the Raspberry Pi. But for the purpose of a cheap home LAMP server, I think one could make a strong case that a MK802 is far superior, and at about the same price as a Raspberry Pi model B.

Price Rpi model B: $35 plus shipping
Price MK802: $42 with free shipping
Price MK802+ (amazingly, is better): $40, free shipping

The differences in hardware are pretty striking. One very noticeable difference is that the MK802 has 1GB of RAM, and the model B has only 512MB. Another very important difference is the CPU. For more information watch this video series:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKNPnBE-ouI

For more information on available distros:

https://www.miniand.com/wiki/MK802
http://liliputing.com/2012/07/linux-distributions-that-can-run-on-an-mk802-mini-pc.html

Obviously the Raspberry Pi is an awesome little computer. Hopefully I don't sound like I am saying its inferior to the MK802. So, figure out what exactly you want from a little computer, and I encourage you to do a bit of research.
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by milhouse » Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:23 pm
gavinca wrote:The differences in hardware are pretty striking. One very noticeable difference is that the MK802 has 1GB of RAM, and the model B has only 512MB. Another very important difference is the CPU. For more information watch this video series:


Also, the MK802 is WiFi only, which IMHO is a bit of a bummer. I'd agree in terms of pure compute and memory availability for headless purposes it is more suitable than a Pi (and the price is certainly competitive), but only if you're happy running it off WiFi (which may, in fact, be just what some people want, though not me). Of course the community here is a major bonus, I've no idea what the Mk802 community or vendor support is like.
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by Dweeber » Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:36 pm
gavinca wrote:Before people start buying a Raspberry Pi with the intention of using it am a LAMP server, I'd encourage them to check out a bit of the "competition". Specifically, the MK802.

Your first post is a bit trollish.. pointing to a different computing platform in a thread about a software distribution for the Raspberry Pi is more than a little off topic. The assumption here is that you already have the RPi and are not shopping for a computer.

There are more than enough reasons why you might want to purpose your RPi as a low end web server and this thread is about one of them... it is not a discussion of what computer to use.
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by benzeman » Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:38 pm
But I have one SD for my Pi for quake, one for web, one for python dev... Also, the MK802 doesn't have any sort of GPIO, so I'd buy a pi anyway... If it can do a web server as well, then that's better!
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by bgirardot » Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:15 pm
Dweeber wrote:
gavinca wrote:Before people start buying a Raspberry Pi with the intention of using it am a LAMP server, I'd encourage them to check out a bit of the "competition". Specifically, the MK802.

Your first post is a bit trollish.. pointing to a different computing platform in a thread about a software distribution for the Raspberry Pi is more than a little off topic. The assumption here is that you already have the RPi and are not shopping for a computer.

There are more than enough reasons why you might want to purpose your RPi as a low end web server and this thread is about one of them... it is not a discussion of what computer to use.


I am not arguing with you Dweeber, just disagreeing slightly. He seems like maybe he was looking for hardware for a LAMP stack or looking at the RPi to run a LAMP stack and discovered or knew of the A10 based systems and thought he'd share in one of the places where a LAMP stack on low cost hardware was being actively discussed. He didn't come off as overly critical or needlessly confrontational to me. Maybe he could have started his own thread for the topic and not dropped it here but that is a subtle point. I don't mind people who are, in good faith, trying to share information doing so.

I don't assume and I really hope that people who read these forums are not all already owners of the RPi. Deep and significant PRE-purchase research is essential to making good choices on what to buy. I read threads on these forums all the time from people who clearly did not research the RPi before buying it and are now unhappy. Reading these forums would have prevented that from happening, and it would lead to more happy RPi owners because only people who understand what the RPi is would be buying them and less would be going to people who should have purchased something else.
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by poing » Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:54 pm
gavinca wrote:...So, figure out what exactly you want from a little computer, and I encourage you to do a bit of research.


I'm not overly enthusiastic about Android for an OS (maybe it runs Linux?) but one drawback for sure is the 2A input power where a headless Pi runs at 0.3 or 0.4A.
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by Coburn » Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:13 am
gavinca wrote:Before people start buying a Raspberry Pi with the intention of using it am a LAMP server, I'd encourage them to check out a bit of the "competition". Specifically, the MK802.

Please note, I am not saying that the MK802 is better than the Raspberry Pi. But for the purpose of a cheap home LAMP server, I think one could make a strong case that a MK802 is far superior, and at about the same price as a Raspberry Pi model B.

Price Rpi model B: $35 plus shipping
Price MK802: $42 with free shipping
Price MK802+ (amazingly, is better): $40, free shipping

The differences in hardware are pretty striking. One very noticeable difference is that the MK802 has 1GB of RAM, and the model B has only 512MB. Another very important difference is the CPU. For more information watch this video series:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKNPnBE-ouI

For more information on available distros:

https://www.miniand.com/wiki/MK802
http://liliputing.com/2012/07/linux-distributions-that-can-run-on-an-mk802-mini-pc.html

Obviously the Raspberry Pi is an awesome little computer. Hopefully I don't sound like I am saying its inferior to the MK802. So, figure out what exactly you want from a little computer, and I encourage you to do a bit of research.

I have a device (a no-name Android Tablet) that has an Allwinner A10 CPU on the logic board. The quality of that product is very disappointing compared to the R-Pi, which is made in the UK (?).

That CPU is what the MK802 has, if I am not mistaken. However, like many people have pointed out, it is more designed for entertainment, since you can plug it into your TV USB Port and then run a HDMI lead to it. Yes, I know that the performance side of the coin leaves the R-Pi in the dust (or at least gives the Pi a run for it's money), but I won't trust the build quality of chinese CPUs. Meanwhile, the Pi has been excellently built and doesn't feel like it'll break apart I push it too hard.

The fact that their is little support for open source development on Allwinner CPUs is also another blow. For example, the kernel for my Allwinner device is stuck officially at 3.0.x. Of course, I know that my device isn't a MK802, so I can't really cast a blanket over it all. I have seen things about the MK802 running Ubuntu. And running a server off WiFi is asking for trouble. I'd rather have a blue/black/yellow LAN cable as my Raspberry Pi's "vine". ;)

Also, while they may have 1GB of RAM, do realize that the GPU chomps up a fair amount of RAM (I think 384MB) and you're left with around... say... 600MB-ish to play with. And that GPU RAM Slice isn't configurable. Besides, if I want my R-Pi to get more RAM even with the GPU Memory shrunk down to 16MB, I'll just use compcache that acts like Swap, but it's compressed. So I could set aside 64MB of swap in future versions, and depending on the data, the R-Pi could fit more than 64MB (since the data going into the swap is compressed) into that "RAM swap".

Besides... my distro, while based on the official build (soon to be on my own Raspbian base for the v1.2 branch), is optimized for the R-Pi since it is my current development platform. While you can use a script that will run around and make your own LAMP via a script, most of the time, it will struggle to be speedy. I have used these scripts in the day and I have seen this performance issue myself.

When you deploy this distro on a SD and boot it, you will get a fully working Web Server that is speedy, and runs like a cracker. Geeks can opt to download an SD image, and go from there. End users will be able to buy an SD Card and know it's been tested and working - they can just plug and play.

Anyway. I just did a stupid thing - I left my USB with the image that I'm supposed to upload today at home. Looks like have I'll upload it over 3G tonight. Sorry guys, but you know, all geeks make mistakes! :?
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by Dweeber » Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:03 pm
Dweeber wrote:
gavinca wrote:Before people start buying a Raspberry Pi with the intention of using it am a LAMP server, I'd encourage them to check out a bit of the "competition". Specifically, the MK802.

Your first post is a bit trollish.. pointing to a different computing platform in a thread about a software distribution for the Raspberry Pi is more than a little off topic. The assumption here is that you already have the RPi and are not shopping for a computer.

There are more than enough reasons why you might want to purpose your RPi as a low end web server and this thread is about one of them... it is not a discussion of what computer to use.


My post is a bit off-topic now that the post it was referring to was split off the original topic it was posted into.
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by permaband » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:01 pm
MK802 now runs Linux just fine inc wireless. You can use a USB to ethernet adapter if you wish.
The ability to hook up a 2.5" hdd via USB is just the biggest plus for me. The 4gb of nand onboard and the fact it comes in a case, with a power supply and cables for £50 shipped makes it far superior value to the pi imho. Not least the fact it has twice the ram and runs arm 7 A10 @ 1ghz.
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by Spid » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:24 pm
permaband wrote:MK802 now runs Linux just fine inc wireless. You can use a USB to ethernet adapter if you wish.
The ability to hook up a 2.5" hdd via USB is just the biggest plus for me. The 4gb of nand onboard and the fact it comes in a case, with a power supply and cables for £50 shipped makes it far superior value to the pi imho. Not least the fact it has twice the ram and runs arm 7 A10 @ 1ghz.


I run a MK802II with the updated firmware, it does what the Pi can not do and that enables my HD TV to become like a SmartTV http://rikomagicsecgenmk802.blogspot.co.uk

Mine came without Power Supply but can use a 5V 1A one, which is also used by my Pi.
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by ski522 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:52 pm
As the saying goes "Different strokes for different folks" although one has to wonder if the Pi can compete with the plethora of Android sticks coming out at a fast pace. I've even seen dual-core sticks starting to appear.

I still say that Android will eventually eclipse the future of computers as mobility devices become the dominant technology in the world and future programmers should be focusing in on that.
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by Spid » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:57 pm
Yes Rikomagic have bought out a RK3066 Dual Core MK802, but the biggest issue is screen resolution as the Mali GPU was never meant for large screen TVs. I bought both to cover all bases.
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by permaband » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:42 pm
Android is something I have no interest in personally and I'm surprised these devices are all 'android' devices. I'd rather have Linux any day of the week for almost every practical application I can think of. Maybe I am just 'old'. Heh.

As for the different strokes argument, you're right. Most certainly. I only really use these things as headless network devices to run LAMP or host files/torrents/dns/NAS etc. So for this the #1 thing the PI can't do which is absolutely kicking my butt is power a USB SSD. I really don't see the value in paying more for a pi to use 2w, but then having to run a hub that will be horribly inefficient. :cry: I looked at the cubieboard (sp?) but the support isnt there and I really don't forsee a need for all that cpu power or energy consumption in my immediate future. Cool product tho!
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by jamesh » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:48 pm
ski522 wrote:As the saying goes "Different strokes for different folks" although one has to wonder if the Pi can compete with the plethora of Android sticks coming out at a fast pace. I've even seen dual-core sticks starting to appear.

I still say that Android will eventually eclipse the future of computers as mobility devices become the dominant technology in the world and future programmers should be focusing in on that.


Android is great for media consumption, but it's HOPELESS as a development platform. You cannot develop Android apps on an Android device. You really need a device running Linux or Windows or iOS for development.
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by Max » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:58 pm
milhouse wrote:Also, the MK802 is WiFi only, which IMHO is a bit of a bummer.


+1
That's the number one feature I like of the Raspberry and Cubie.
Didn't got a 100 mbit Internet connection to connect it to slow and laggy wifi.


Coburn wrote:The fact that their is little support for open source development on Allwinner CPUs is also another blow. For example, the kernel for my Allwinner device is stuck officially at 3.0.x.


Higher version numbers are not necessarily better.

Keep in mind that the 3.0.x and 3.4.x kernels that the linux-sunxi project offers are actually maintained stable kernel branches.
While the 3.6.x that the Raspberry is currently using is a dead branch, for which no new official updates will be released.
Note the EOL marker on http://www.kernel.org/

That said the kernel could indeed use some work.
And it indeed lacks open libraries for video decoding and such.


poing wrote:one drawback for sure is the 2A input power where a headless Pi runs at 0.3 or 0.4A.


Think the 2A figure is for when you want to attach a hard disk to it.
A10 actually has a quite aggressive power saving mode enabled by default, because it was made for tablets. There were some people complaining that "top" showed very high CPU usage on an idle system.
Not realizing that the A10 underclocks itself in steps all the way down from 1008 Mhz to 60 Mhz on idle moments to save power, and it was using a high percentage of the clock it was currently at.
(Can change that behavior by setting the cpufreq governor to performance, something you should do if you want to do benchmarks.)
by Max » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:44 pm
jamesh wrote:Android is great for media consumption, but it's HOPELESS as a development platform. You cannot develop Android apps on an Android device. You really need a device running Linux or Windows or iOS for development.


Correct. Native Android applications need to be cross-compiled on a normal computer.
However you do are able to do some simple scripting on the device itself, which might be sufficient for some.

Python in the Android scripting environment (also supports Ruby and a couple others): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnhtrHTXO1o
Scat (Scratch clone) under Cogdroid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LpJI_AfCLU
by Spid » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:54 pm
Just an aside the Dual-Core MK802 use the Rockchip RK3066 ARMv7 Cortex-A9, but still has the Mali GPU

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockchip#RK30xx_series
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by jamesh » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:33 pm
Max wrote:
jamesh wrote:Android is great for media consumption, but it's HOPELESS as a development platform. You cannot develop Android apps on an Android device. You really need a device running Linux or Windows or iOS for development.


Correct. Native Android applications need to be cross-compiled on a normal computer.
However you do are able to do some simple scripting on the device itself, which might be sufficient for some.

Python in the Android scripting environment (also supports Ruby and a couple others): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnhtrHTXO1o
Scat (Scratch clone) under Cogdroid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LpJI_AfCLU


Simple scripting...not really development, and Python on Android is, well, somewhat underwhelming. Scat (notwithstanding the naming connotations) might be useful.
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by fanoush » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:14 pm
Max wrote:
jamesh wrote:Android is great for media consumption, but it's HOPELESS as a development platform. You cannot develop Android apps on an Android device. You really need a device running Linux or Windows or iOS for development.


Correct. Native Android applications need to be cross-compiled on a normal computer.


well, not exactly, there is AIDE https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... om.aide.ui , this is full java ide that can build android applications just like on pc. There are more options but
thís one is quite usable.
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by fanoush » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:38 pm
Also if you are missing Linux on Android there is a way to run it in a chroot. Just search play store for 'linux installer'. I used this one https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... nuxInstall on my Asus Transformer to install armhf debian which then runs fine in terminal https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... ndroidterm
There is also VNC client or X server so one can run X applications.
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