What have we missed?


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by Svartalf » Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:15 pm
Quote from RITRedbeard on August 1, 2011, 07:15
Quick question -- is that a guess or have you run some sort of emulation to play Q3 on the engineering samples via wine or otherwise?


It's probably guessing off of the muscle the OMAP3 was able to field on the subject- and yes, they've got an ES port of Quake3:Arena in hand, so they'll be able to tell you fairly quickly whether he's telling the truth or not.


Does the GPU support OpenCL, CUDA, or any sort of middleware technology to offload high FP calculations to GPU?


Heh... It only really supports OpenGL ES 2.0, possibly 1.1, and probably OpenVG. OpenCL's probably out of the question, as is CUDA (CUDA's NVidia only...)- but you should be able to scrounge up Sh, a metaprogramming framework from the people who founded RapidMind, that will allow you to MOSTLY do something like those with the shaders on ES 2.0- with a bit of effort since it's not been ported there.


What are the capabilities of running x86 software on the Raspberry Pi?


Heh... A dual-core A9 barely manages DosBox games. That's something weighing in at about 5 times the overall performance of this thing at best.
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by Svartalf » Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:17 pm
Quote from eben on July 27, 2011, 22:52
Specs on the GPU are 1Gpixel/s, 1.5Gtexel/s, 24GFLOPs. Comfortably enough to run, say, Quake 3 at 1080p30.


Missed this response... Wondering...what's the story on the Linux side ES support- closed or open?
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by eben » Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:05 pm
Quick question -- is that a guess or have you run some sort of emulation to play Q3 on the engineering samples via wine or otherwise?


We've played Q3 on this chip on a different (non-RP) board.

Does the GPU support OpenCL, CUDA, or any sort of middleware technology to offload high FP calculations to GPU?


No, but this is something we'd like to explore.

What are the capabilities of running x86 software on the Raspberry Pi?


You'd need to run an instruction set emulator (QEMU or similar). So in summary, not great :(

Given the current engineering samples, could you give us a CPU MIPS/Dhrystone metric to go by?


We're going to be doing a benchmarking post real soon now.
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by eben » Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:07 pm
Missed this response... Wondering...what's the story on the Linux side ES support- closed or open?


The userland component of the GLES state machine is probably going to be closed source at launch. We're working on addressing this.
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by RITRedbeard » Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:48 am
Quote from eben on August 1, 2011, 23:05

We've played Q3 on this chip on a different (non-RP) board.


I wonder if the SDL library is cross platform compatible to ARM?

Might have to start writing some code :)
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by ukscone » Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:24 am
Quote from RITRedbeard on August 2, 2011, 04:48
Quote from eben on August 1, 2011, 23:05

We've played Q3 on this chip on a different (non-RP) board.


I wonder if the SDL library is cross platform compatible to ARM?



yes i use it on ARM based devices all the time.
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by Svartalf » Tue Aug 02, 2011 2:35 pm
Quote from eben on August 1, 2011, 23:07
Missed this response... Wondering...what's the story on the Linux side ES support- closed or open?


The userland component of the GLES state machine is probably going to be closed source at launch. We're working on addressing this.


That's the most important thing right there eben. If it's not open, if you're trying to make it that way, I can lend aid or help to that end- and stand behind the whole thing. :D
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by Svartalf » Tue Aug 02, 2011 2:39 pm
Quote from RITRedbeard on August 2, 2011, 04:48
I wonder if the SDL library is cross platform compatible to ARM?

Might have to start writing some code :)


Most definitely. Performance isn't going to be QUITE what an Cortex-A8 based device with the rest of the core layout the R-Pi has in it's SoC, but they're using SDL and Allegro on the OpenPandora, an OMAP3 based gaming handheld that uses an Angstrom based OpenEmbedded Linux distribution. I'm porting a few things over to the Pandora, and I'm kind of planning to see if I can manage to make the games go on the R-Pi along with other things (Like maybe an actual bootloader or a good toolchain for the experienced to do cross-compilation with instead of native work...).
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by Astralix » Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:38 pm
Pretty fine thing!
My colleagues and me are waiting for the release. If you need some kernel developer, give me a ping by email :)

To tell if the feature list is complete, I need a pin description of the 1.27mm header. Cause for what you have planned the tiny box I don't see any missing things (well, after you added ethernet).
But for what I like to do with it, I need to add some board on top and so I'd like to see the signals on the extension header.
Addons could be:
Higher quality audio
Small LCD/OLED display with touch or buttons, IR/radio remote.
Companion processor for industrial control (CAN, USARTs, analog and digital IOs)
e.t.c
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by The Ferminator » Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:23 pm
I don't know if this should be a standard feature or an optional one, but I would add at least one PS2 port for a keyboard/mouse.

Maybe a faster external storage option(eSATA or USB 3.0) or would that drive the price up too much?

What kind of power jack Is used on the device, and what power input does it take?

Is there a way to overclock the CPU, and if so is there a way to attach some sort of cooling device to prevent it from cooking!?!
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by Johannes » Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:02 pm
FPGA. Seriously, if this is supposed to be an educational toy, reprogrammable logic would be an awesome addition.
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by liz » Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:14 pm
Quote from Johannes on August 2, 2011, 22:02
FPGA. Seriously, if this is supposed to be an educational toy, reprogrammable logic would be an awesome addition.


Awesome…and expensive! We'd encourage the community (that's you lot) to produce FPGA add-on boards.
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by troehsner » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:43 am
i would like to ask if there is talk of a headphone jack or if that will be left for external devices
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by abishur » Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:44 am
Quote from troehsner on August 3, 2011, 01:43
i would like to ask if there is talk of a headphone jack or if that will be left for external devices


As mentioned in this thread, it will indeed have a 3.5mm jack.

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by Astralix » Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:57 am
Hi again!

Found the WIKI but still not sure if you'll support audio codec through the 1.27mm headers. Are the needed signals available?
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by abishur » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:25 pm
Quote from The Ferminator on August 2, 2011, 21:23
I don't know if this should be a standard feature or an optional one, but I would add at least one PS2 port for a keyboard/mouse.


I too have found the odd need for for a PS/2 port from time to time even in this USB ruled era, but I'm willing to bet we won't find a r-pi with them because a) they'd need to add another chip and 2 PS/2 inputs making both the overall cost and footprint increase and b) PS/2 is increasingly outdated, for the few thing you might need a PS/2 input, you can usually get away with a PS/2 -> USB converter

Maybe a faster external storage option(eSATA or USB 3.0) or would that drive the price up too much?


I forget where it was mentioned, but at one point someone asked about the possibility of a gigibit ethernet port and the answer was that was unfeasible do the limitations of the chipset being used for the usb/ethernet (LAN9512) I imagine that would also apply to eSATA /USB 3.0 (but an eSATA port would be something I'd like to see implemented on future versions too :) )

What kind of power jack Is used on the device, and what power input does it take?


There's a thread discussing power supplies hither

Is there a way to overclock the CPU, and if so is there a way to attach some sort of cooling device to prevent it from cooking!?!


And one discussing overclocking here
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by Svartalf » Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:26 pm
Quote from Johannes on August 2, 2011, 22:02
FPGA. Seriously, if this is supposed to be an educational toy, reprogrammable logic would be an awesome addition.


It would...but whooo...talk about jacking up the price. This isn't even going into the fact that there's probably insufficient GPIO lines to make it matter except as adding a separate USB programmed/interfaced FPGA board off of a hub (at which point, you're talking about simply buying something like : http://www.easyfpga.com/ez2sus.....config.htm and these cost between $140-160 US.) which you can do now anyhow.
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by Svartalf » Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:37 pm
Quote from The Ferminator on August 2, 2011, 21:23
Maybe a faster external storage option(eSATA or USB 3.0) or would that drive the price up too much?


It'd drive the price up too much, much like adding WiFi would- not to mention that it'd not be any better than USB2.0 performance as it'd have to be tacked on via the USB bus through a hub.

Reality is, most of these embedded SoCs like this have limited expandability in many cases. They're purpose built and are and aren't like a PC in nature- most of them only really support a few GPIO lines, along with a few things like built in USB lines, SDIO lines, and occasionally an Ethernet port or two. It's not a simple thing to just tack things willy-nilly onto these things. As often as not, you're adding function like WiFi/Bluetooth via one of your USB legs- and sometimes off of a hub chip's USB leg.


Is there a way to overclock the CPU, and if so is there a way to attach some sort of cooling device to prevent it from cooking!?!


Heh... I wouldn't be up for saying if they're going to allow you to dink with the clock speed. Depends on what the binning on the chip is as to that (The only reason you can do it with Android devices is that the SoC's are geared and rated much like PC chips are- so you have some play-room on the speeds...). And you're going to have more concerns about electromigration than the thermals as you're not going to be able to overclock by enough to produce appreciable heat with the ARM core in the device.
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by abishur » Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:25 pm
Quote from ukscone on July 31, 2011, 23:51
Quote from abishur on July 31, 2011, 23:49
I couldn't resist throwing together my logo too :p

Now I have ZERO skills as an artist nor am I very proficient with photo editting software, so this image is HORRIBLE, but it gets my idea across and maybe someone with better skill than me can make it look better.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-76SVyYSpnbk/TjXpsR8UvLI/AAAAAAAAAeI/bBzNRGqXVOM/s912/r-pi.jpg


nice. a bit of tweaking and someone who can actually use GIMP or Photoshop (unlike me) could do some good things with that.

I think we are going to force liz to start a logo thread :)


I couldn't resit tweaking it some more. I like the way the original one uses the outline of the raspberry's druplets (the little bumps that make up the raspberry) to form the PI outline, but this one is a LOT cleaner! If anyone wants to merge the two ideas, please feel free to do so!

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-t1UPQOvI9pU/Tjl1-CKfJKI/AAAAAAAAAeg/mxogJzLH7e8/s720/r-pi.JPG
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by ukscone » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:39 pm
Quote from abishur on August 3, 2011, 16:25
Quote from ukscone on July 31, 2011, 23:51
Quote from abishur on July 31, 2011, 23:49
I couldn't resist throwing together my logo too :p

Now I have ZERO skills as an artist nor am I very proficient with photo editting software, so this image is HORRIBLE, but it gets my idea across and maybe someone with better skill than me can make it look better.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-76SVyYSpnbk/TjXpsR8UvLI/AAAAAAAAAeI/bBzNRGqXVOM/s912/r-pi.jpg


nice. a bit of tweaking and someone who can actually use GIMP or Photoshop (unlike me) could do some good things with that.

I think we are going to force liz to start a logo thread :)


I couldn't resit tweaking it some more. I like the way the original one uses the outline of the raspberry's druplets (the little bumps that make up the raspberry) to form the PI outline, but this one is a LOT cleaner! If anyone wants to merge the two ideas, please feel free to do so!

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-t1UPQOvI9pU/Tjl1-CKfJKI/AAAAAAAAAeg/mxogJzLH7e8/s720/r-pi.JPG


nice. ok lets start a logo thread and throw out the images for people to mess with shall we?
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by Des_Zac » Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:51 am
I have to say, I'd love for there to a be a thing (Similar to apple's purchase system) where you can pick what you want, like upgrade from 128Mb to 256Mb and that would add X dollars to the total. Therefore if you want certain things (Such as the much-wanted wi-fi and semi-wanted bluetooth) you would pay more and get more.

Okay now for my suggestions,

1.) I would love it if you would sell these in five packs etc. so me and my friends could each get one, but have the price at a discount. Well, buying in bulk is a better word for it.

2.) Let you order the product with your desired Distro like Ubuntu, Mint, etc.

3.) Ability to add on some stuff to your order like SD cards, USB hubs, HDMI cords, etc. things that you might need to run the computer.

4.) I saw this earlier and don't know how it would work but it would be a great option. Daisychaining multiple R-Pi's together to have them run together as one computer? I don't know if that's possible but I would love it to be implemented

5.) A booklet explaining what everything is and how it all connects etc.? This is aimed at children and young teens (And adults that like modding) so the best way I can think is to have a booklet teaching them what everything does and giving them a better understanding of computers.

I love this idea and I hope to order a large amount of these for my own personal "Tinkering"

Thanks,

-Zach
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by Lob0426 » Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:01 pm
Let's not forget that this is supposed to be a low cost computing device. I like it the way it is, though I always approve of more memory! I am writing this post on an iPad2 which has very little expandability at all, and what there is costs 3 times as much as these ras.pi. I will be buying the B model as soon as it is available in the U.S. Probably more than one.

As long as a powered USB hub will give me access to additional devices such as HDD and camera I will have a great time figuring out things this thing can do. After market memory expansion and a real time clock would be nice! I suspect that a good number of add-ons will come available rather quickly if ras.pi is successful.

I hope it will become the heart of a great number of DIY projects and hopefully fullfill its primary intended purpose to put a low cost computer in the hands of children for learning. I know I intend try many things with it!
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by Qwerty » Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:59 am
some form of wifi support would make this the king of the pc industry.
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by AmyS3 » Sat Aug 06, 2011 3:38 am
Quote from Lob0426 on August 5, 2011, 19:01
After market memory expansion and a real time clock would be nice!


the rtc question is bugging me already quite a while as well..
how does the raspi "know" the time or keven keep it?
i did not see any infos about that so far..
does the raspi even have a rtc and/or backup battery so the os knows what time it is when you disconnect it from the power source?

i would also get some more infos about the standby if it has one and how much power it uses in that state...
also how to wake it up again it it has a standby..

did i miss the power switch in the specs.. yes i did.. is there one?
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by IRBaboon » Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:24 pm
That ARM11 CPU seems very slow. :( (only 1 integer unit + 1 32bit vector FP coprocessor?)
I wish there was dual core support to promote multi threaded programming.

Funny enough we should save the enviroment with a faster CPU.
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