BBC Basic


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by speculatrix » Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:03 pm
I would love to run BBC Basic on the RPi ... you know, just for old time's sake...

But the only implementation I've seen runs on Windows, costs 30 quid and has a rubbish editor. Oh well...
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by ukscone » Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:25 pm
until the port of riscos is finished then you can use brandy http://jaguar.orpheusweb.co.uk/branpage.html
& i believe (probably mistaken though) that the foundation has something up their sleeves wrt to bbc basic sometime in the future
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by speculatrix » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:37 am
Ooh, thanks for that. I didn't know about Basic V (nor that the language comes with RiscOS). I'm just on a bit of a nostalgia kick at the moment - I used to be deputy editor of 'Acorn User' magazine. That's why the RPi is so appealing - it's late, over-subscribed, called Model B and is far more capable than anyone has any right to expect. Bliss.
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by RichardUK » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:33 am
My dad would like AMOS (old gaming basic for the Amiga) :)
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by speculatrix » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:42 am
I now have Brandy running on the Pi, so my life is complete. Haven't the foggiest idea what I'm going to do with it, though. WIsh I'd kept all those old 5.25in floppies....
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by RichardRussell » Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:01 am
speculatrix wrote:But the only implementation I've seen runs on Windows, costs 30 quid and has a rubbish editor. Oh well...

Rubbish editor? That's not what most users think! I wouldn't want to return to using a BBC Micro-style line editor after using the BBC BASIC for Windows editor, with its auto-indentation and syntax colouring.

As far as BASIC V is concerned (i.e. the ARM assembler version, not Brandy) there is work underway to incorporate most of the language extensions from the Windows version, which will hopefully make it a much more capable language.
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by speculatrix » Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:17 pm
RichardRussell wrote:Rubbish editor? That's not what most users think! I wouldn't want to return to using a BBC Micro-style line editor after using the BBC BASIC for Windows editor, with its auto-indentation and syntax colouring.


Well I guess I'm comparing it to things like Kate or Komodo Edit. But you're right, the old BBC Micro line editor was painful. I remember the joy when the later BBC Basic Editor came out on ROM. Pah! Kids have it easy these days... ;)
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by mfirth » Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:39 pm
Does anyone know if Brandy Basic is still being actively developed?

There seem to be two different websites for it, the one here, as previously posted, and a Sourceforge page here.

The Sourceforge page seems to have a slightly newer version (1.20pre5 versus 1.19), but it seems to have a few issues.

The omission of the "AUTO" command seems a little strange and annoying to a long time BBC Micro user too.
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by ukscone » Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:04 pm
brandy 1.19 linux version doesn't have graphics or sound, the ver on sourceforge (1.20pre5) has at least graphics
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by RichardRussell » Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:27 pm
mfirth wrote:Does anyone know if Brandy Basic is still being actively developed?.

Off topic, but for your interest the long-standing bug in Wine which most seriously affected compatibility with BBC BASIC for Windows has recently been fixed. So that's an option for x86 Linux users wanting to run BBC BASIC.
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by ukscone » Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:30 pm
RichardRussell wrote:.
Off topic, but for your interest the long-standing bug in Wine which most seriously affected compatibility with BBC BASIC for Windows has recently been fixed. So that's an option for x86 Linux users wanting to run BBC BASIC.


So any chance a raspberry pi version is on the horizon? i'd raid my wife's purse (or the kid's hidden piggy bank) for a few bucks to buy it especially if it ran from bare metal :)
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by RichardRussell » Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:31 am
ukscone wrote:So any chance a raspberry pi version is on the horizon?

I thought the intention was to make BBC BASIC available for the Raspberry Pi. That's the impression David Braben gave in an interview, and various sites list the supported languages as 'Python, BBC BASIC, C and Perl'. If it isn't yet available that does seem surprising, and I would be interested to know why. Porting either the native ARM version or Brandy ought to be quite straightforward, I would have thought.
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by jojopi » Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:38 am
RichardRussell wrote:I thought the intention was to make BBC BASIC available for the Raspberry Pi. That's the impression David Braben gave in an interview, and various sites list the supported languages as 'Python, BBC BASIC, C and Perl'. If it isn't yet available that does seem surprising, and I would be interested to know why. Porting either the native ARM version or Brandy ought to be quite straightforward, I would have thought.
I suspect he meant as part of the RISC OS port. Porting ARM BBC Basic separately is probably not as easy as it sounds. Absolutely all the graphics, sound, and disc I/O will be implemented via RISC OS SWIs, which could hardly be more different from the facilities available on Linux.

BBC Basic V and VI are already working rather well in the current RISC OS alpha releases. With full graphics support.
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by trevj » Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:57 pm
RichardRussell wrote:[...] As far as BASIC V is concerned (i.e. the ARM assembler version, not Brandy) there is work underway to incorporate most of the language extensions from the Windows version, which will hopefully make it a much more capable language.
Is this the RISC OS version?
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by ukscone » Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:27 pm
RichardRussell wrote:
ukscone wrote:So any chance a raspberry pi version is on the horizon?

I thought the intention was to make BBC BASIC available for the Raspberry Pi. That's the impression David Braben gave in an interview, and various sites list the supported languages as 'Python, BBC BASIC, C and Perl'. If it isn't yet available that does seem surprising, and I would be interested to know why. Porting either the native ARM version or Brandy ought to be quite straightforward, I would have thought.



Brandy (linux version) works really well, the version with graphics is a bit flakey but it runs and might make a good project for someone to fix up as the hard parts (the keywords etc.) are already there it just needs sound added and graphics improved.

it won't be REAL BBC BASIC but it'll be near enough for quite a few PCW type-ins :)
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by rurwin » Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:52 pm
speculatrix wrote:I used to be deputy editor of 'Acorn User' magazine.

ukscone wrote:it won't be REAL BBC BASIC but it'll be near enough for quite a few PCW type-ins


Fight!

Achem, sorry about that. I suppose the question is, is it good enough for the much more challenging Acorn User type-ins.

;-)
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by ukscone » Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:38 pm
rurwin wrote:
speculatrix wrote:I used to be deputy editor of 'Acorn User' magazine.

ukscone wrote:it won't be REAL BBC BASIC but it'll be near enough for quite a few PCW type-ins


Fight!

Achem, sorry about that. I suppose the question is, is it good enough for the much more challenging Acorn User type-ins.

;-)


dunno as I never read Acorn User as I never owned a Beeb, only blew a few up at the local uni while on work experience in the Physics dept and used it to play Chuckie Egg & Elite & a few other games at school, college and a friends house.

I read things like PCW, Byte, Your Computer, PC Today...

[did use BBC BASIC though as it was available on my beloved Z80 based systems :) ]
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by speculatrix » Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:03 pm
rurwin wrote:the much more challenging Acorn User type-ins.


I strongly refute that our code listings were "challenging". The typos were there so that you could demonstrate your ... um ... skill and creativity. ;)

I mean, seriously, have you ever tried proofreading listings? It's so boring...
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by ukscone » Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:18 pm
speculatrix wrote:
rurwin wrote:the much more challenging Acorn User type-ins.


I strongly refute that our code listings were "challenging". The typos were there so that you could demonstrate your ... um ... skill and creativity. ;)

I mean, seriously, have you ever tried proofreading listings? It's so boring...


I always suspected that the typos were put in there deliberately :)

i'll see your proofreading listings and raise you protocol rfcs. just spent 5 days reading 60 pages as it was such dry prose I kept falling asleep. still the silver lining is that I am now well rested :)
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by rpdom » Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:01 pm
How about BeebEm? Ok, it's been static for quite a few years, but last time I tired it on a Linux system, it mostly worked (just some problem with keyboard interrupts).

What I'd like to do is try and run a CommunITel style BB on my Pi which would be good if I could use BBC Basic, otherwise I'll just have to port it to perl or php or learn python and use that.
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by ukscone » Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:29 am
beebem & b-em are pretty slow on the raspi (30 to 60% some of the slowness is probably graphic library used not using the gpu slowness) Hopefully someone will decide to fix that or write a new beeb emulator from scratch optimised for the raspi
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by deadlock601 » Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:15 am
I had a hunt around for other emulators and found xbeeb (via this page http://bbc.nvg.org/emulators.php3). It was written by James Fidell for X so
thought it might be worth a shot... and it was !

Source had excellent instructions and it didn't take much fiddling to get
it built. From brief testing so far (i.e. running a few lines of basic) its
performance is considerably better than that of b-em and beebem.

Couldn't attach the current build as it's over the 64K limit, so have made it available
here for the time being:
http://ModeZero.OnlineWorkArea.com/Public/xbeebpi

..>> Vince.
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by Piebald » Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:15 pm
speculatrix wrote:Ooh, thanks for that. I didn't know about Basic V (nor that the language comes with RiscOS). I'm just on a bit of a nostalgia kick at the moment - I used to be deputy editor of 'Acorn User' magazine. That's why the RPi is so appealing - it's late, over-subscribed, called Model B and is far more capable than anyone has any right to expect. Bliss.


I led (okay, lead) a sad life and would count the days until your magazine came out each month. I think A and B Computing magazine once referred to yours as 'the one for the squirrels'. But yours was better!

I still kind-of think in BBC Basic when I think about programming something.

The good ol' days. Lol
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by Piebald » Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:16 pm
speculatrix wrote:I now have Brandy running on the Pi, so my life is complete. Haven't the foggiest idea what I'm going to do with it, though. WIsh I'd kept all those old 5.25in floppies....


Floppies? Luxury. When I were a lad ...
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by liz » Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:20 pm
It's really frustrating, actually; if you *did* keep your old floppies, you may well find they don't work any more. For some reason, the magnetic medium used in those floppies is also a magnet for moulds, even if you kept them in a dry place. (You can often see it with the naked eye through the slot - little white patches.)
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