Make it EASY for noobs


37 posts   Page 2 of 2   1, 2
by AndrewS » Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:45 am
I found the links at http://elinux.org/RPi_Beginners#Where_to_start.3F I think it'd be useful if they were added to http://elinux.org/RPi_Tutorials too.

Rather than
Code: Select all
sudo su
shutdown -h -H now
I'd recommend just
Code: Select all
sudo poweroff


"The downside to using all the card is that it takes much longer to backup the image." - actually, even if you haven't expanded the rootfs partition, using dd or Win32DiskImager will still backup the whole card, even the (blank) unpartitioned space.


Overall a good first effort :) When writing guides such as this, IMHO it's better to focus on the technical aspects and try to keep personal opinion out of it - personal opinion can be discussed on the wiki ;)
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by Jim JKla » Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:17 pm
http://elinux.org/RaspberryPiBoardBeginners

Or go to the top of this page then click Wiki and on that page click Beginners.

By the way there is now a page on building a LAMP web server don't ask theres a link in the Beginners bit and an explanation on the page. :roll:
Noob is not derogatory the noob is just the lower end of the noob--geek spectrum being a noob is just your first step towards being an uber-geek ;)

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by AndrewS » Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:23 pm
Jim JKla wrote:By the way there is now a page on building a LAMP web server don't ask theres a link in the Beginners bit and an explanation on the page. :roll:

IMHO any LAMP tutorials definitely ought to be on http://elinux.org/RPi_Guides and not a "Where to start" page!
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by Jim JKla » Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:27 pm
Don't you think beginners should have a go at building a LAMP server? :o

It is however an opinion I am prepared to respect.

If you want to put a link in RPi_Guides I don't have an issue and if there's any Beginners out there that have an opinion well it would be nice to hear from them.

I came to this from the viewpoint of a user that needed to do a blind setup and having written that I realised they would be unable to run startx from ssh.

Building a basic LAMP webserver means they can edit the /var/www folder and see results with a browser.

I like to enpower beginners not restrict them I think if you read the page you may see it's written to that end. ;)
Noob is not derogatory the noob is just the lower end of the noob--geek spectrum being a noob is just your first step towards being an uber-geek ;)

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by Jim JKla » Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:37 pm
Sorry about the double post I had a hack at the Beginners Wiki page I moved the bit that was for Contributors (ie. not beginners) to the bottom of the page.

Kind of sensible when you think about it.

Now the first thing the beginner finds on the page is stuff for the beginner. ;)
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by chorlton » Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:58 pm
A LAMP Server is MUCH more than just adding files to /var/www. That's just a LALALALALALA server. The M and P of LAMP (MySQL and PHP) and putting it all together is a step beyond beginner I would say. I guess i'm saying, leave the instructions in, but don't refer to it as a LAMP server, that's something more complex.

p.s. (I found your links at the bottom of the Beginners page)

http://elinux.org/Wheezy_raspi-config
http://elinux.org/A_Method_for_ssh_blind_login
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by AndrewS » Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:52 am
Jim JKla wrote:Don't you think beginners should have a go at building a LAMP server? :o

I'm not suggesting that at all. All I'm suggesting is that setting up a LAMP server may not be the first thing you want to do with your RaspberryPi ;)
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by Jim JKla » Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:48 am
So your suggesting that if it is the first thing they want to do then they get left to their own devices.

It's an option all I am saying is "you have a RaspberryPi this is one of the things you can do with it" there may even be parts of my install that are flaky but it's got to be usefull that a RPi will load the elements of a LAMP server.

Your Noob community using the RaspberryPi has the potential to be huge there's going to be some gifted individuals in amongst them.

I for one believe that if we scatter the right tools we just might get a passing diamond and what harm can these tools do.

I would much rather be remembered for a philanthropic scattering of hardly used trifles than be remembered as a hoarder of knowledge.

I am concentrating on command line stuff that will give the punter new tools for their RPi that will allow them to stretch, and as I have said if you are of the opinion that that these tools are a little advanced then thats your opinion. ;)
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by AndrewS » Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:45 am
Fine, as you're going to continue ignoring my suggestions I give up.
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by jamesh » Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:31 am
Jim JKla wrote:Don't you think beginners should have a go at building a LAMP server? :o



Nope.

Too complicated, too likely to put people off.

Feel free to write a guide, as it's obviously useful, but not to the vast majority of beginners.
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by chorlton » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:24 am
I just read your LAMP instructions.

All you've done is install some of the components and add an index.html which uses some of the functionality of apache.

  • Why are you installing Tomcat? The point of LAMP is to rapid prototype using PHP for your server side logic. Tomcat, Java, J2EE are a whole different world of pain.
  • How do you create a new database in MySQL? Create users that your LAMP application can use? All you've done is install MySQL without linking it up to your webserver in any way.
  • Similarly, php is just sitting there not being used.

By all means, the thought of editing HTML on your headless server and seeing the changes in a webbrowser on a separate machine would be a nice insight into a client-server setup for a beginner, but this only needs Apache. You're muddying the waters by referring to LAMP and including tomcat, postfix etc.

Maybe re-title the article to "Setup Apache Webserver on your Raspberry Pi" and then include an actual example of a change to index.html. Remove ALL references to LAMP, MySQL, PHP, Tomcat and postfix because you are not using them.

As it stands now, you are adding extra complexity to a page intended for newcomers. If there are any "passing diamonds" then they will find their own way to more advanced topics such as LAMP. Better to provide a trail to more advanced topic for those that can follow it, than alienate the majority.
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by Jim JKla » Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:06 pm
Yes I read it again felt it was lacking a preamble warning

So I put one in it was but a trice, probably quicker than defending my actions on the forum. ;)

Setting up an Apache webserver is probably a good idea for another wiki page but I've been a bit busy today sorting out a wiki page to make vnc available to those supossedly non existent blind ssh login ghosts. :mrgreen:

Oh yes that works as well and the's a link on the beginners page (thats an awfully long page you know for a beginner to find something) Of course if I go in and split that into sub pages with suitable links, but of course I would be exposing myself to a world of pain. nah! I've got better things to do.

postfix and MySQL pages and some PHP it all takes time so you will have to excuse me if I go away and do some experimentation there's a Gimp and Blender to look at as well.

No peace for the wicked. :mrgreen:
Noob is not derogatory the noob is just the lower end of the noob--geek spectrum being a noob is just your first step towards being an uber-geek ;)

If you find a solution please post it in the wiki the forum dies too quick
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