The most expensive R-Pi of the world!


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by emercer » Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:52 pm
liz wrote:I spoke to Mike this morning, and apparently Brazilian orders are now being sent via local parcel post to avoid liability for that massive courier tax.


\o/
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by liz » Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:19 pm
It *is* good news, isn't it! There's been so much interest from Brazil; we're very glad it's been sorted out. I don't think any of us (at the Foundation or at the distributors' end) had any idea about that particularly punitive tax rate before you guys brought the matter up, so thank you very much.
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by emercer » Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:02 pm
C'mon, we are the thankful ones... There's been nothing this exciting from a tinkerer's point of view since the days of the MSX (most Brazilians didn't start with the Sinclair Spectrum like I did, none as far as I know have seen a working BBC Micro).
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by MendelGusmao » Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:19 pm
liz wrote:I spoke to Mike this morning, and apparently Brazilian orders are now being sent via local parcel post to avoid liability for that massive courier tax. It's meant that some orders in that country have been held up (they held them back until the new shipping method was available), but I understand that Brazilian customers should have had email about this now.


That's great news! I didn't receive anything about this change but I'm hoping mine is between these lucky orders!
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by emercer » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:00 pm
liz wrote:I spoke to Mike this morning, and apparently Brazilian orders are now being sent via local parcel post to avoid liability for that massive courier tax. It's meant that some orders in that country have been held up (they held them back until the new shipping method was available), but I understand that Brazilian customers should have had email about this now.


I didn't exactly get an e-mail about that, but since I last complained about my undelivered Pi (doth I protest too much?) I was e-mailed, not by Margaret who was handling my communication thus far but by Alex
from their Raspberry Pi Team, and he told me they were re-sending me the device if I could so kindly send them my complete address etc. I made sure I reminded him not to use a courier. Now let's wait.
Last edited by emercer on Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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by pc77 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:01 pm
Thank you Liz! ;)
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by plugwash » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:07 pm
emercer wrote:Quite the opposite: Both RS and Farnell/Newark/Element 14 are big, multinational corps that are used to selling components abroad to hundreds of countries, therefore they can't plead ignorance about methods of taxation by either the countries they're delivering to nor about fees DHL might charge their international costumers. It was an unforgivable oversight of RS to allow these fees to pile up on costumers who were expecting their R-Pis to arrive at the given cost. I don't blame the Foundation for the resulting ruckus, but they should at least acknowledge that their retailers of choice screwed up bad.

I think the problem is that farnell and RS are NOT retailers, they are buisness to buisness suppliers.

As such they are used to selling to buisnesses who are more interested in getting stuff quickly than getting it cheaply and their regular customers probablly already know about the cost implications of buying from abroad so there is no need to explicitly point it out to them.
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by ceps » Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:21 pm
So now costumers from any other country that also suffers from premium courier fees will have to wait till receiving their Pi's, pay the fees, complain about it, and then maybe something will change for the following costumers from there.
Why not just allow regular airmail shipping as an option in the first place..?
(Claiming that the distributors work only with contracted couriers is nonsense because as seen here, if they want to send by regular mail they most certainly can).

There's a big difference between paying legit import taxes and paying high courier handling fees. What is the shipping and handling charge that goes with the order supposed to cover if not just that?
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by jamesh » Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:32 pm
ceps wrote:So now costumers from any other country that also suffers from premium courier fees will have to wait till receiving their Pi's, pay the fees, complain about it, and then maybe something will change for the following costumers from there.
Why not just allow regular airmail shipping as an option in the first place..?
(Claiming that the distributors work only with contracted couriers is nonsense because as seen here, if they want to send by regular mail they most certainly can).

There's a big difference between paying legit import taxes and paying high courier handling fees. What is the shipping and handling charge that goes with the order supposed to cover if not just that?


You have to take that up with RS or Farnell. We do talk to them as well of course, but more voices...

Shipping and handling covers cost of packages, handling and shipping to the destination. It does not cover whatever tax your government applies, or the cost of recovering that tax. Since this varies according to every single government, asking RS or Farnell to apply this stuff at source would be impossible. Which is why no-one in the whole world does it. The problems you see here are not limited to Raspi's!
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by ceps » Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:02 pm
jamesh wrote:You have to take that up with RS or Farnell. We do talk to them as well of course, but more voices...

Shipping and handling covers cost of packages, handling and shipping to the destination. It does not cover whatever tax your government applies, or the cost of recovering that tax. Since this varies according to every single government, asking RS or Farnell to apply this stuff at source would be impossible. Which is why no-one in the whole world does it. The problems you see here are not limited to Raspi's!



The problem with this system is when the government doesn't charge any tax at all for importing something that cost 35$ by regular airmail services, but does when importing by courier. As a result there is also fees for recovering these taxes. Understandable.
All it takes to avoid this is to ship by regular airmail and not courier. Then there are no taxes, no tax recovery fees, and no unhappy customers(because of having to add on sometimes double or triple the value of the order in fees).

In countries that do charge tax regardless of the value of the product, i'm sure the local postal service has no problem charging the tax themselves, without adding extra fees for some courier doing it for me.

RS and Farnell don't need to know the local taxes for every country in the world. They should just allow regular shipping methods that allow individual customers to avoid excessive taxes.
As someone mentioned here already, RS/Farnell don't usually do business with individuals. They should understand that most people ordering the Pi from them are not businesses and don't necessarily need their Pi's delivered by courier(with all added expenses involved). I think the foundation should try to get them to see it that way.

Obviously these issues are not limited to the Raspi.... The thing is that most places do ask you how you want your orders shipped and when it comes to the Pi you have no choice.
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by emercer » Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:12 am
ceps wrote:The problem with this system is when the government doesn't charge any tax at all for importing something that cost 35$ by regular airmail services, but does when importing by courier. As a result there is also fees for recovering these taxes. Understandable.
All it takes to avoid this is to ship by regular airmail and not courier. Then there are no taxes, no tax recovery fees, and no unhappy customers(because of having to add on sometimes double or triple the value of the order in fees).

(...)

RS and Farnell don't need to know the local taxes for every country in the world. They should just allow regular shipping methods that allow individual customers to avoid excessive taxes.

(...)

Obviously these issues are not limited to the Raspi.... The thing is that most places do ask you how you want your orders shipped and when it comes to the Pi you have no choice.


What he said. I second it entirely.
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by Nistenf » Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:20 am
My RPi arrived today to Argentina.
On top of the $35 for the Pi and the $8 for the shipping, I had to pay $8 for some Customs stuff (this is ok), $0.65 for airport charges (also ok) and about $42 for some DHL fees =(
But at least I have it.
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by rew » Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:07 am
jamesh wrote: Since this varies according to every single government, asking RS or Farnell to apply this stuff at source would be impossible. Which is why no-one in the whole world does it.

We just ordered a few components from Mouser. They offered to pay the Dutch VAT for us provided we shipped with FedEx. This option was NOT available when shipping with DHL. (or whatever the second option was).

(VAT is to be paid in the "destination" country. So if I order something from the US, I don't pay the sales tax or anything there, but once it comes into Holland, I'm supposed to pay the VAT. Normally the source charges me the without-vat price, and when it enters the country the courier goes to customs with the package, pays the VAT and brings it to me. Then the charge me that VAT, adding a fee for advancing the money and handling the customs guys. This time, apparently FedEx offers to go to customs, with the VAT money already in-hand. So they KNOW the value of the goods, they HAVE the money, so this does not incur the handling fee.

On the other hand, DHL told me that they wouldn't charge any handling fee (in the Netherlands) because that fee is included in the price of sending the package... but apparently DHL is different in some countries. )
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by rew » Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:05 am
ceps wrote:There's a big difference between paying legit import taxes and paying high courier handling fees. What is the shipping and handling charge that goes with the order supposed to cover if not just that?

Just for your information. Here in Holland, DHL says that the handling fee for guiding packages through customs is included in the DHL fee. I called them because I considered having something DHL-ed from china to here.

On the other hand, the regular mail people, although they manage to get some packages through customs without any fuss (i.e. I don't pay the tax I'm supposed to), charge EUR 12.50 when the package does incur taxes (on top of the actual taxes).
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by rasbeer » Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:00 pm
Similar issues (in some other countries) covered here (in particular a way to check if you're be subject to DHL's 'remote area' fees).

Sorry I hadn't noticed this thread. Thanks to Liz et al for interceding with RS - with a bit of luck they'll offer an airmail option soon :)
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by ceps » Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:02 pm
rew wrote:Just for your information. Here in Holland, DHL says that the handling fee for guiding packages through customs is included in the DHL fee. I called them because I considered having something DHL-ed from china to here.

On the other hand, the regular mail people, although they manage to get some packages through customs without any fuss (i.e. I don't pay the tax I'm supposed to), charge EUR 12.50 when the package does incur taxes (on top of the actual taxes).


Every country and their thing...
I don't want regular shipping so that I can evade paying lawful taxes in the hope that my package won't be opened by customs(where by way of courier they all get opened).
In Israel there are no taxes or customs release fees on importing of packages valued 75$ or less. Unless you have it shipped by courier, in which case they can ask for customs release fees, handling fees and what not. Even if normally it wouldn't incur any tax at all...

That little difference is what decides if my Pi that is yet to be shipped will cost me 42$(35+7 s&h) or 70$ or 100$(depends on their mood the day it arrives...)
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by rasbeer » Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:21 pm
ceps wrote:
rew wrote:In Israel there are no taxes or customs release fees on importing of packages valued 75$ or less. Unless you have it shipped by courier, in which case they can ask for customs release fees, handling fees and what not. Even if normally it wouldn't incur any tax at all...

That little difference is what decides if my Pi that is yet to be shipped will cost me 42$(35+7 s&h) or 70$ or 100$(depends on their mood the day it arrives...)


Is there someone at RS people in this situation could contact to ask for 'Brazilian style' shipping?
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by emercer » Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:09 pm
rasbeer wrote:Is there someone at RS people in this situation could contact to ask for 'Brazilian style' shipping?


Mike @ raspberrypi@rswww.com is the one I talked to last time (referred to by Margareth Walker @ margaret.walker@rs-components.com). But I still have no confirmation that it actually shipped, let alone via regular airmail, so take all this info with a BIG grain of salt.
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by rasbeer » Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:21 pm
emercer wrote:Mike @ raspberrypi@rswww.com is the one I talked to last time (referred to by Margareth Walker @ margaret.walker@rs-components.com). But I still have no confirmation that it actually shipped, let alone via regular airmail, so take all this info with a BIG grain of salt.

Great thanks! :)
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by MendelGusmao » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:01 pm
Hi!

Two weeks ago I asked RS for a position from my order and they said it'll be delivered in 11 weeks after 05-17. I took the chance to ask if my order is between those ones that will be delivered via mail parcels but this time I had no answer.

Well... the things got worse after I read an article in BR-Linux entitled "The Hard Life of (the Brazilians) Who Wants to Import a Raspberry Pi" (in Portuguese) saying that RS & Farnell are giving up on mail deliveries to Brazil due to these tax trouble.

The sad is that the first one arrived in about two weeks but as I stated before in this same thread, it's really not worth the price to pay the same value to a courier and 3 times more to the government. Now it's sold and I have no idea of when I will get another one for a more fair price.

I think I'll be asking soon for a refund and buying one of those Android devices being sold at DX. And I'm very, very sad because - at least in the short term - I won't post a DIY project in Hackaday to inspire the newcomers to do something cool with this brilliant machine.
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by jamesh » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:07 pm
I'm sorry that your government chooses to make the tax burden so high you cannot get your Raspi. The only thing I can suggest is finding someone abroad who would send you the device as a 'personal gift' using standard postage.
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by gabomdq » Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:39 pm
I ordered via RS Components, shipped via DHL to Argentina. I just got of the phone with DHL, they are charging me *49* USD in concept of custom fees and their handling (custom fees can not be more than 50%, so it's easy to see what a rip off this is), and to top it off you have to pay in advance via credit card before they deliver the package ¿?. So, to anyone buying from Argentina, don't buy from RS and if you do, try to explicitly state that you don't want DHL shipment.
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by cassio.mark » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:29 pm
Hi, on 26/7 i received a e-mail from farnell brazil saying that they are selling by pre-order the raspberry pi. As i send a e-mail a few days after the launch of raspberry asking when they would be selling on brazil, i was on pre-order list.
So, the price of the raspberry is R$ 170,50(~$83.43) + ship taxes(R$ 24,67(~$12.07) for Santa Maria RS).
I think it's still overpriced, but is better than import.Also, the delivery time is max 3 days after the payment confirmation.
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by gabomdq » Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:07 pm
I got the paper bill from DHL's Argentina rip off (though they insist on calling it service!) so I can give you the breakdown:

Raspberry Cost: 35 USD
Shipping via DHL: 8 USD
Custom Fee: 7.68
DHL handling fee: 36.30 USD

So it seems I involuntarily signed up for the "Buy one, give one to DHL for free" promotion :)

Seriously though, it's unbelievable such a crappy company (at least judging from their local branch) can stay in bussiness.
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by dc740 » Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:07 pm
gabomdq, where did you get your bill from?
it's not in my package, and my credit card bill doesn't detail why DHL charged me so much.
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